[Accent Core] Order-Sol General Discussion

[D4Nt3]

Just how does Johnny prevent u from charging? Isnt BHB AC FRC a sure way for building charge bar? (not vs Johnny but vs anyone)

[LM_Akira]

Coins and pokes in your face all day long, wavedash rushdown, crazy range on low and mid MFs as well as TK Ensenga, you simply can't back up and charge against an aggressive Johnny. Against Johnny I find most of my Gauge comes from CC'd normals more often than that (or AC FRC within combos). BHB AC FRC is a really good way to waste a Fafnir/Tension in general. If you do it at long range but the opponent attempts to punish then fair enough (just to be safe) but using 25% Tension just to AC and build 80% of 1 level on the ground is not recommended.

[Sesshyru]

You talk about gf frc like it's rare. I wish hos could blow 25% tension for a blanket to run in under.

+1234352442134

I hate Gun Flame and BRP... But I love them because of what they do.. Love hate sucks..

[reaVer]

You talk about gf frc like it's rare. I wish hos could blow 25% tension for a blanket to run in under.

There used to be a time, where BHB had an FRC, it actually had good range and even without FRC it had really good advantage. You could easily use that move to run in. Now, arcsys changed that though so that he would be more balanced:vbang:

For obtaining level, it depends how you play. The more you dedicate yourself too rushdown the smaller the chance is you're able to get charge. KZO nearly never uses charge for example and blows his tension to fafnir and (F)RCs. On the other hand you got 0 who even drops combo's to obtain level3, 0 is probably the most aggressive level 3 player around I think. The others are a lot more defensive. Then there are players like Kaqn who more or less occupy the middle using level2 for the majority of times while maintaining an offensive momentum, Kaqn(from the last time we saw him) blows tension on obtaining level but uses special moves a little more sparingly then KZO and 0.

Back to the 25% tension carpet, he hasn't got the thing Sol has where he puts on display some flames and the ability to run through them. But OS does pose such a threat when he has 25% tension, because if anyone is stupid enough to use his paws after any tick or in any predictable moment while OS is on the ground, he risks eating a fafnir, which can be counter hit and that would easily mean 250 life down the drain for them. So OS's carpet is there, just not with the amount of visual flare:P

[LM_Akira]

But OS does pose such a threat when he has 25% tension, because if anyone is stupid enough to use his paws after any tick or in any predictable moment while OS is on the ground, he risks eating a fafnir

Are you talking about being close enough for HOS to tick the opponent and then Fafnir if they try to hit buttons? Because at that sort of range, Fafnir gets stuffed by 101 different pokes.

[reaVer]

If you're able to tick them that close there's no point in fafnir as a run in threat to begin with. I'm talking about maximum range 2S ticks, and if they want to stuff that they eat a fafnir, just like Hintalove already mentioned.

[Champion]

Fafnir and GF can't be compared for the same purpose. GF is mainly a pressure tool, although you can also use it as a frame trap when 6P doesn't work, while Fafnir is mainly for stuffing/frame trapping. And when blocked, you lose momentum.

[LM_Akira]

I'm talking about maximum range 2S ticks

But you just said after any tick:

if anyone is stupid enough to use his paws after any tick

Well, using 2S at that range is not ticking then, it's poking. Ticking is when you're feasibly right in someone's face and you can throw them/do something to them immediately as they leave block stun.

Using 2S like that is just poking with an attempt to bait a retaliation.

[axel]

Uhh... You do know that the ENTIRE cast can heavily punish Sol's GF is he doesn't FRC it.

How do you do that without jumping over the GF?

[Champion]

Haha, your post reminds me of this debate (as you were 90% implying) ;P

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2306&page=14

[reaVer]

Fafnir and GF can't be compared for the same purpose. GF is mainly a pressure tool, although you can also use it as a frame trap when 6P doesn't work, while Fafnir is mainly for stuffing/frame trapping. And when blocked, you lose momentum.

They pose the same threat, but one is visible and the other is invisible:P

LM_Akira: a poke is a zoning attack, a tick is a setup attack:eng101: semantics!!

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

How do you do that without jumping over the GF?

Unless GF is done meaty, jumping over it is actually pretty easy to do on reaction. Then you have characters with evasive moves like Ky (Greed Sever). Honestly, punishing a non-FRCed GF is not hard.

[Hatred Edge]

How do you do that without jumping over the GF?

I would go and post how various members can punish GF besides just jumping/IAD over it but...

This is an Order-Sol discussion thread.

Anyone uses tick throws for Order-Sol? I'm trying out 5K and 2P. I tend not to use c.5S

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

5K is not really a useful tick IMO, it pushes out a tad too much. 5K -> CC is another story, but that's off of certain setups and you really are kind of playing with fire there. An example would be, on wakeup, dash up with 2P-5K and if it's blocked, CC 5K immediately and throw. The dash momentum here ensures you don't get pushed out too much. Good ticks without using tricky stuff would be 5P and 2P, 2K occasionally can work. CCing pokes can work (dashing 5S© -> CC to throw is actually pretty good), just make sure you mix it up.

[LM_Akira]

Most ticks I use are 2K and 5P. Every once in a while I'll use jump, low airdash j.P as a tick to catch people off guard. Other than that I don't really try to tick throw that much at all.

[reaVer]

If you do 5K from dash in you can grab pretty quickly after having it recovering, while at the same time you're giving the impression you're not tickthrowing(as it's not a common setup and 5K is usually stringed into other attacks). Just the mixup between dash in and walk in can make people throwable or CH sweepable(as they try to counter throw you), you'd even get an air intercept in a linked or canceled 5S.

[Hatred Edge]

The reason I wanted to know about 5K is: that it does give +F's on block correct? Thought that would/could help since throws come out instantly.

[reaVer]

it is neutral in SD, so that means after 5 frames you can throw. 2P and 5P are + which means you're forced to wait a little longer, 5S is -3 which means you can throw nearly immediately.

[LM_Akira]

The reason I wanted to know about 5K is: that it does give +F's on block correct? Thought that would/could help since throws come out instantly.

5K is even on standing block.

But you don't want loads of + frames for tick setups, you can't throw people when they're in block/hit stun (well not sure about hit stun and command throw properties tbh).

You want to tick them with a fast move which recovers quickly and then throw them immediately as they come out of block stun.

[Hatred Edge]

So that's why 2P is better?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

While this is normal logic for ticks, you have to keep GG's throw protection in mind. 5 frames out of blockstun, your opponent is invincible to throws (6 frames for hit). So for a move that gives large advantage, like 5P, you have to wait even longer to throw, and this can make your attempt a little more obvious. This is also why CC -> throw can work really well, because CCing a move like 5K actually leaves you at a significant disadvantage. While this seems dangerous (and it is, sometimes), you can throw pretty much immediately as soon as you recover and CC is quick and can be difficult to recognize visually, especially if you mix up a lot so that your opponent is confused as to what you are trying to do.

[Hatred Edge]

Looks like there's a few things I need to test out myself. CC > throw is something I never really tried before.

[HolyBadSanta]

For tick throws, I use 2P ,6P and 6K CC. I alternate between 2P and 6P to mindfuck people trying to throwbreak, and 6K CC work a lot because people expect too much 2D or another pressure string. Next time, I m gonna try some BHB set up for tick throw.

[LM_Akira]

If you're able to tick them that close there's no point in fafnir as a run in threat to begin with. I'm talking about maximum range 2S ticks, and if they want to stuff that they eat a fafnir, just like Hintalove already mentioned.

Just to bring this back up, this strat is actually highly flawed. If HOS pokes with 2S at maximum range and it's blocked, then he follows with a Fafnir, there are plenty of ways the Fafnir can be stuffed. Just from a few mins of testing I found that...

- Normal ABA can stuff the Fafnir with 5HS, Moroha ABA can stuff the Fafnir with 5S(f).

- Slayer can stuff the Fafnir with 5K.

- Ky can stuff the Fafnir with 5S(f) and 5HS.

- Dizzy can stuff the Fafnir with 5S(f).

- Venom can stuff the Fafnir with 5S(f).

- Testament can stuff the Fafnir with 5HS.

etc...

These are just a few of the things I found will beat Fafnir in this situation. Now, granted some are risky (e.g. Testament's 5HS) but some of these will win almost effortlessly (e.g. Ky's 5S(f) and Venom's 5S(f)).

So, if you like to use blocked 2S into Fafnir, you will only be getting those CH launches on people who don't know what to do in the situation (rather people who try to mash on something instead of block/use their head). As soon as they realise they can stuff the Fafnir with the right move, this setup becomes relegated to something to do every so often i.e. it's not a reliable way of fishing for CHs unless you're playing someone who never learns from their mistakes.

[reaVer]

Sigh, you're not considering the other threats, such as the one Hintalove posted 2S x l1Ri, if the dumbasses mash the list you gave you just Ri them for CH and perhaps even a combo. And then say that the l1Ri was blocked, you still get your fafnir setup.