[Accent Core] Order-Sol General Discussion

[Hatred Edge]

Okay.... I see why everyone always say that Order-Sol tends to RC 2HS if he has 50% meter.... No, it's because he's gonna do a combo. It's because it's punishable on HIT. The same with lvl.1 BRP. Why the hell does he have overheads that are punishable on hit? On block I understand but on hit? Is this some kind of joke? Nothing like mixing up a 2HS only to be Pot Bustered on hit. Wonderful....

[D4Nt3]

2HS is +0 at both hit or block at close range. It is only Pot that can punish him after that. Plus u are low+throw invul for some frames and high dmg combo on counter.. pfff i wish many Johnny could do that ;P

[reaVer]

it's neutral yeah, that means nothing can punish him on block, not even potemkin. They RC it to combo, the problem there is that they can't confirm it. They don't use it without half a bar is to make those 2Hs count, if you keep spamming that move it's less likely to hit when you actually do have half the bar to combo. If you get potbustered from 2H you're doing something very wrong, like running into him or something, just IAD at him once or twice to let him know what risks he's taking.

[Hatred Edge]

Doing something wrong? I use it like 2K>2S>2HS or 5K>2S>2HS or even 2K>2HS. Pretty much whenever I land a 2HS on Pot I get Pot bustered.

[reaVer]

and what do you do after the 2H?

[Hatred Edge]

If it hits move in and A)Throw B)Pressure(pokes/CC/AC FRC) If it's blocked same thing

[reaVer]

k, so you move in and throw, after hitting him you end up at 0. Then after that he has 5 more frames of throw invincibility, then you can throw him. Now... potbuster comes out at 4... Who you guess will win? The same applies with pressure, if you're gonna poke with a 5+ frame poke you're getting your ass potbustered.

[Kamui Moon]

You could link a 6K if you know he's going to go for the throw every time.

[Hatred Edge]

Really now? whenever I use 5K I get Pot bustered but if I use 2P I beat Pot buster and continue to attack.

[Champion]

You'll hardly beat potemkin buster with pokes. From frame 3 onwards it's already invincible.

[Hatred Edge]

Didn't G.Blood say that people use 2P to stuff wake up Pot Busters? I remember because as soon as I had my next match against the localo Pot I used it and I kept landing 2P whenever he tried to do wake up PB... Possibly because PB takes more time to input than 2P?

[Hintalove]

Any well timed meaty can beat a wake up buster, because it has vulnerability at the front end. I think what the others are trying to tell you is that 5k is 1f faster than your other fast options and when you're dealing with 3f of vulnerability and the fact that pot cant crouch under 5k, it is your pot stuffing move of choice. For example, any time you want to poke out of pressure and you're in range, 5k is the move you should throw out. As for me, I just jump out and collect my free combo when pots start getting predictable with buster. One thing I've heard but haven't ever spent the time to confirm is that jump startup is also throw immune. Any one have hard facts about that?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Okay.... I see why everyone always say that Order-Sol tends to RC 2HS if he has 50% meter.... No, it's because he's gonna do a combo. It's because it's punishable on HIT. The same with lvl.1 BRP. Why the hell does he have overheads that are punishable on hit? On block I understand but on hit? Is this some kind of joke? Nothing like mixing up a 2HS only to be Pot Bustered on hit. Wonderful....

Ok, what?

2HS is neutral on block. On a standing hit it's +2 and on a crouching hit (the more likely scenario) it's +3. It's NOT punishable on hit unless you do something stupid (like trying to throw Potemkin). Level 1 BRP is +1 on hit, so yeah, not really punishable. There are circumstances where you can get thrown, but you are not in a state where the throw is unavoidable, you can do something about it and severely punish someone for trying to throw you when you're at frame advantage.

Now for the PB scenario, something you have to understand is that there is THROW PROTECTION ON HIT AND BLOCK. This means that when you hit someone with something or force them to block something, there is a short period once they return to neutral where you can't throw them...but they can throw you. This is 5 frames for a blocked move and 6 for a hit. So for example, if you do 2HS and it hits someone crouching, you have to wait nine frames before you can throw them. Potemkin only needs a two frame window to PB you out of anything because as noted, he is invincible from frame 3 onward.

As far as level 1 BRP, if you do it at a close range, you can be thrown out of most of your normals because even though you are at +1, your fastest move is still only 3 frames, whereas normal throws are 1 frame startup. This does NOT mean a throw is guaranteed for them, it just means you have to take countermeasures against it.

Luckily for you, you play HOS. Not only does he have 6K (which leads to a grip of damage on CH with 25% Tension), but he has one of the best jumps in the game and one of the best jumping normals in the game (j.HS). You can punish someone SO hard for trying to throw you in this type of situation that it really shouldn't even concern you that much. Naturally, this applies to PB as well, since it's a 4 frame move.

Concerning beating Pot Buster: The thing you need to understand about 5K is that while it's three frames to hit, this is only at the closest range (ie just before the knee extends). The move is active for 3 frames and the extended part of the knee is later in this window, so at longer ranges you're hitting more on the 5th frame (if it hit on the 3rd frame from THAT far away, the move would be way too good). This explains why sometimes you will have more luck using 2P since it's 4 frames and the hitbox extends to max range on that very first active frame.

But yeah, in general, if you want to punish someone for trying to PB you, you can get a much bigger reward for going for a jump or 6K. Just learn the scenarios and learn what to do.

[LM_Akira]

But hang on, I thought Lv1 BRP is -1 on block? Lv2 is +1 and Lv3 is +5. That's what it's listed as in the Mook and Complete Guide. A blocked Lv1 BRP from relatively max distance isn't a problem to worry about but closer up is more dangerous because of that slight disadvantage. In fact, some people I play will always throw me after blocking it if I use it too close up, I have a hard time breaking their throw or even trying to jump right afterwards in this situation. Of course, the first way around this problem is judging your distance correctly to begin with and not using Lv1 BRP when it will land you right into someone's throw range.

[Sesshyru]

Yah I have noticed that after I do a lvl 1 BRP they uasully punish me even if I hit them.. Its so retarded $/

[reaVer]

l1BRP is potbusterable of potemkin impact guards the hit, so in theory that move is punishable. But generally you shouldn't forget to jump/backdash when you're in a situation like that.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

But hang on, I thought Lv1 BRP is -1 on block?

On hit it's +1. Naturally, on block a throw is pretty much guaranteed if you are in throw range. Thus why you need to use it from further away and when you have 25% meter.

[LM_Akira]

Ahh sorry yeah, I wasn't thinking about it properly (and I didn't work out the SD for when it hits).

[Hatred Edge]

Using BRP lv.1 out of throw range.. wouldn't that make the attack more obvious? I don't want to get Pot Bustered but I don't want to get hit with Heat Knuckle either...

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Using BRP lv.1 out of throw range.. wouldn't that make the attack more obvious?

How so? Against most reversals, if you have 25% meter, you can block if they attempt to use an invincible move (for example, Slayer does BBU, you FRC and guard, then punish him). If you do it correctly, it's incredibly difficult to punish. Most players will avoid trying to punish you if you show them that you can punish them for even trying. Heat Knuckle has a 14 frame startup, so it's very difficult for him to punish you with that move on reaction; he'd have to anticipate you were going to do it.

[Hatred Edge]

Understood. Question: One thing I never use with Order-Sol thus far is fuzzy guard. Does anyone use it?

[LM_Akira]

Question: One thing I never use with Order-Sol thus far is fuzzy guard. Does anyone use it?

Yes, I do.

If you give me a few days, I'll have my next vid up and I will explain exactly how it works and some of the options it gives you (it's probably most useful in the corner but you can use it to get a knockdown in midscreen too).

[Hintalove]

What is the most damaging burst safe aircombo? Preferably out of a hji 5s or 5hs?

[reaVer]

I'd go with sj.S-P-S,dj.S-H SV

[Hintalove]

is js burst safe? Like if you do 5h sjs and they burst you'd be able to block it?