[Accent Core] Order-Sol General Discussion

[LM_Akira]

Well *sigh* you're ALWAYS considering that your mind game will ALWAYS work and the opponent will ALWAYS fall for it... For one thing 2S, Lv1 RI happens faster than 2S, Fafnir because you cannot cancel into Fafnir which is exactly what you're doing with 2S, Lv1 RI (you're cutting off 2S recovery with RI startup). No one will ever try to hit you out of blocked 2S, Lv1 RI, they'll most likely IB the RI or whatever. So you won't get that CH as no one will do that! And even instead of trying to stuff the Fafnir (which is risky with some of those things I listed) they can simply just jump if they see you've not canceled 2S into RI. And by now, a lot of players are accustomed to blocking low vs HOS anytime they see that FB spark anyway... EDIT: LOL this is the exact same discussion that took place in the media thread already

[reaVer]

Well *sigh* you're ALWAYS considering that your mind game will ALWAYS work and the opponent will ALWAYS fall for it...

Well, it's quite simple, if your opponent doesn't fall for it, things usually are still safe and you're still in advantage, except for the fafnir and 6H when the people decide to IAD at you. But it will come down to the point that you NEED to make your opponent ALWAYS fall for it, otherwise you'll have a really big problem and you WILL lose.

And how you do that is your problem, you'll have to use your own creativity and experimentation to work that out.

[Coinage]

um i need some advice. for some odd reason when i see video of HOS doing corner combos, such as the typical j.hs}j.d}etc. do they also do JI with it cause sometimes i see them doing like three times. i cant seem to connect my JI HJ combos like they do.I need some advice please ;p

[Sesshyru]

Are you refering to after they do j.HS -> j.D -> dj.HS -> j.D and then do a HJ? If you mean that, you have to "catch" them with a j.S as soon as you HJ, it sets you up to do a nother j.HS -> j.D.

[Tsak]

what do you guys think is the best ground string from a dash (the running one) into GB-Cross up?

[LM_Akira]

I like 2P, 2K, 5S©, 2S, 2D it will work on almost everyone all the time (apart from maybe Faust and his stupid legs). 6K, 2D usually works a treat, 2K, 2D from further out than usual and 2K/5K, 5S©, 2S, 2D are probably other staples I use.

[SSMugen]

I like

2P, 2K, 5S©, 2S, 2D

it will work on almost everyone all the time (apart from maybe Faust and his stupid legs).

6K, 2D usually works a treat, 2K, 2D from further out than usual and 2K/5K, 5S©, 2S, 2D are probably other staples I use.

I dunno the 6K, 2D one seems to refuse to work with me for some reason....most likely it's just me but I find it easier to do it from a string of combo's rather than off of single or two hits but that's just me.

[LM_Akira]

That's strange because every time I'm testing a GB crossup in training, I will always use 6K, 2D for ease of use. Never had it not work before (unless I was running full on at Faust).

[the8anarchist]

I came across something i found interesting while screwing around with gold chars OS DI:Sakkai killed gold Anji from full heath after i cranked his guard bar, I decided to fallow this up by testing it with norm chars and indeed even on Pot with bar cranked it proved to be NEAR fatal for him leaving him with what i estimated to be 10% of his health after the 10 and final hit, now imagine it on Chip or Jam or anyone with I'd say higher then 1.00% def maybe even .98% could prove instant death with a cranked guard bar from full heath. I know that this situation is highly unimaginable in tourneys or even casually but if the opportunity presents itself and DI CAN and WILL connect go for it even if just to see the face of your opponent after being owned by a DI:Sakkai of all things. and just for laughs heres what I'd imagine what you and the opponent would be like in this situation You during execution of DI: opponent: you after doing full DI and taking most/all of opponents health: Opponent:

[CABINET SMASHER]

You bored or something, dude? :|

[reaVer]

You seem more bored then him...

[the8anarchist]

yes i was bored when i posted that post.

[Hintalove]

Just to prove how pointless that really is.... With full guard bar you can do jh 5s jh 5s/fafnir full dust loop. Does roughly the same damage meterlessly/or not :/ Stop trying to get me to take the time to learn hos's DI:psyduck:

[reaVer]

Oh, its easy and they can't burst it. So if they got less then 50% and you get your hits in, go for it, its a guaranteed win.

[the8anarchist]

yeah thats one of the main reasons I use OD's especially at lvl 3 they either do decent(IMO)dmg i.e doing lvl 3 TR can from what I've seen do 50% heath and you get invul or lvl 3 SF can be comboed off of and DI as reVer said its unburstable making it very useful if your opponent likes to burst off of combos a lot(my bro bursts every time i go for dust or SW loop) and Sols ODs look badass, whats more fun than lighting your opponent on fire and/or blowing them up?

[LM_Akira]

reaVer, if you're going to do a "basics" Order-Sol guide aimed at new players, you should avoid barraging them with hardcore frame data:

http://goldreaver.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/order-sol-basics/#more-5

It's either going to put them right off or go way over their heads. Or both.

Also you should make a note that the frame data actually comes from the Arcadia Accent Core Mook. It's just that it was translated and uploaded onto DL by it's members (plus there are slight errors with it here and there I believe).

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

reaVer: 2D -> fastest CC is +3, not +4. Check your math. Remember that when calculating total frames in GG, you have to subtract one from the startup since the GG frame data includes the first active frame in the startup. So it would be 8 + 4 + 14 = 26. When you do fastest CC, you get 8 + 1 + 13 = 22. So 26 - 22 = 4, then 4 - 1 = 3. Thus, +3 advantage, not +4. To avoid this in the future, when calculating total recovery, simply subtract one from the active frames, then add it to the base recovery to get the total. So with 2D, 3 + 14 = 17. Subtract 13 from 17 and you get 4. Subtract 1 from 4 and you get +3. Much simpler than messing with total frames. Only time you should worry about total frames is when taking whiffs into account.

[reaVer]

From what I recall when a move has a startup of 8 it would hit on the 8th frame and stay active for its active frames. So doing that you'd get 8+13 = 21 and not 8+1+13.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

You're thinking too hard. Read it again. 8+1 = 9, which is the listed startup. In the GG frame data, the listed startup INCLUDES the first active frame, since they are saying the first frame the move hits on. The active frames listed after that include that frame as well, so if you add them together as they appear in the data, you get an extra frame because you are counting the first active frame twice. Now when calculating the total recovery for a CCed normal, you have to include that active frame, since you are not cancelling it (it has to actually connect). So you could look at the listed startup as 9 and then add the 13 to it and get the same result. I simply used 8 to stay consistent within the context of the explanation I was giving.

[reaVer]

Oh, now I see, k, will fix it.

[Sesshyru]

Off Topic: Good choice in web site Reaver. That place as a LOT of scientists and they make for great references in papers

[kooshi]

Hey, just wondering what you guys do after a lvl2 and 3 Gunblaze. Usually for lvl1, I would just run up and hit them with a j.H, j.D, jump, j.h, j.D, BRP (only lvl2 or 3, I usually skip lvl1 unless it's for a kill). I just can't seem to connect with the same combo for lvl2 and 3 Gunblaze. Any tips please?

[Kamui Moon]

There's lots of options. Check the first post of the combo thread for the easier ones. lv2: depends on how much charge I have. >150% lv2 GB, lv1 GB, dash [hj.S, j.H, j.D, lv1 SV]/[j.D, JC j.H, j.D | dust loop] <150% lv2 GB AC 5S JI (5H) ji combo lv3 (corner) lv3 GB AC, lv1 GB, dash dust loop, lv2 BRP lv3 GB AC, 5S, dust loop, lv2 BRP (mid) lv3 GB AC, 5S, 5H, hj/ji combo

[LM_Akira]

SBO 2008, damn. Sanma's team of Dry Ace (AN) and Koto (BA) out in the first round to FAB (PO), Nakamura (MI) and Shoot (AX). 0's team of KA2 (JA) and Haaken (PO) out in the 2nd round to Nemo (TE), Koichi (MI) and Endou (MA). Kaqn's team of Kazuki (DI) and Inoue (TE) out in the 2nd round to Imo (ZA), Ogawa (ED) and Mike (JA). What does this character need to do to place high in big tournies? :sad:

[reaVer]

This drives back to where I said OS can never get mid or high tier. OS's basic game depends on reading your opponent properly and this by itself is hard. After that comes the fact that Tougeki features the cream of the crop, so its really hard to read players there. The only player that has performed decently with this game is KZO having a total of 3 wins(some Sol in /, Kazuki and Mekomeko) and 3 losses(Sharon, KA2 and someone in the / period). As for what I know about the players speficly: Sanma is really really really good... at performing combos, despite not uppercutting as much as KZO does he does take more risks in an attempt to get a bigger reward. I wouldn't be surprised that Sanma nerved out and his damage dealt was reduced to a minimum. Kaqn simply dies to Eddie, same as 0, the fact its Ogawa in there makes it a sure loss pretty much. 0's weakness... dunno really, he is pretty unsafe in what he does, he ends up in places where he shouldn't be and tends to eat combos at moments he shouldn't have. As for his execution, same thing that applies to sanma applies here. On top of that, none of these except for 0 plays the basic game(0 does, but does not prefer too). All of them try to obtain l3 or l2 before trying anything serious which makes them somewhat predictable: none of these players will rush you down, unless 0 is in the mood to do so. To add that this is a rushdown character just makes things weird. I think OS would be soooo much better if his normals didn't prorate like a bitch and yeah, perhaps other characters do have the same proration or even more on their normals, but on l1 OS's abare is superlow and on l3, any hitconfirm depletes the damage to a minimum or a whiff if you attempt to use 5H.