[Accent Core] Order-Sol General Discussion

[HolyBadSanta]

I also forgot to mention I occasionally run up and throw out Fafnir as oki too. I don't know if it's actually a reliable strategy in the long run but it can work against most of the guys I play because they more often than not block high on wakeup (they're sick of getting hit by May's dust, Ky's Greed Sever, Testament's 6P etc... lol).

I guess I need to get a better feel for character's throw distances to use 2HS more successfully.

A lot of people thought the Fafnir was an overhead like a lot of FB moves... MWUAHAHHA !

The look of their face when you tell them that it's a low hit, is just priceless.

2HS is very important as oki because of the OS Gun blaze okizeme, it condition people to block low, and to focus on crouch guard and crossup then, they eat the one of my favorite combo: 2HS RC S HS BRP lvl3 Air Combo. Payback Time !

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

WUT: I like that j.HS mixup, I'll have to try it out when I get to play again. Reversal-safe oki is always good. I also like your analysis of HOS's wakeup game, very spot-on. HOS has always been about forcing your opponent to make mistakes and then punishing them, rather than straight mixing them up with 50/50. Not as straightforwardly effective as most characters' mixups, but it can be more intimidating if you can pull the mindgames off since the opponent has to worry about the sheer number of options you have.

[reaVer]

Oki and traditional high/low mixup are not HOS' strong points. HOS excels at punishing people for trying to escape/punish his assault and forcing them to fear and guard. As such, I find myself trying to stay active during oki in an attempt to lull my opponent into the sense that they can punish something I'm doing, and then punish their mistake. Movement and whiffed normals can score you a surprising number of hits. You'd be amazed at how often you can do a simple 5P/5K (whiff), then nail an immediate 6K/Gun Blaze into big damage. I also go with an early 2HS or out of throw range 2HS; the former will leave you with frame advantage if they guard (up to +3 if you hit on the last frame, -1 if they IB it), and the former to keep them honest or score a CH for being silly and thinking they could throw. All this means that, eventually, your opponent will just sit there and guard, opening up HOS' solid close-range ground game.

I still do fuzzy guard j.S setups occasionally as well, but I find myself leaning more towards a meaty late j.HS for oki if I want to do some while landing shenanigans. I feel like a real jerk when I do it, too. Late j.HS will let you whiff and guard reversal shoryus and most (but not all) reversal supers. Your options after j.HS are hard to predict (low, throw, 6K throw bait, 2S poke punish, a hilarious 5D that hits way too often) thanks to its guardstun. And you're neutral if they do a reversal backdash, but close enough to close the gap easily and start your offense again.

That late j.H is easily achieved by doing j.P before j.H, not only does it work on okizeme, it works throughout the whole match. It even protects your j.H against random shoryukens in most cases.

As for his mixup options, they might be mediocre but he has a lot of them, so you shouldn't rule them out that easily. Yes of course CH fishing(which is what you're actually doing) is very good and easy with OS if your opponent wants to interrupt you or does predictable shit but in the long run they will guard and you're stuck with his mediocre mixup options.

I myself go for simple things like crossup GB, throw, 5D and 2P... I don't really use okizeme as my main source for damage eventhough I do get good damage from them plenty of times. If it's blocked then fuck it, usually I end up with frame advantage no matter what I do, so I can attack again easily or perhaps fish for counter hits:P

[fatewalker]

i'll play around with this meaty j.HS as well. it seems to add yet another tool for Hos's Oki game. with that in mind i am not sure if agree that Hos's mix up is that bad. the Gun Blaze Oki is already Difficult for Players to deal with if you utlize all of it's options. plus Meaty 2HS options are pretty nice as well. +3 on block, links to 5K on hit, and counter hit leads to huge combos! not to mention this meaty j.HS stuff. wich sounds upper safe and leads in to the same kind of options as Meaty 2HS. none of this even takes into accont the mix he has in Pressre with 5D, Lv1BRP FRC, CC Fefinir, 2HS RC, and Lv3BRP. honestly his mix up seems pretty Solid to me.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

HOS needs meter/charge to make his mixup truly intimidating, and it isn't the same sort of blatant 50/50 mixup that many characters have. Like I said, he does have a lot of options and they can be intimidating, but they are more focused around tricking the opponent into making a mistake as opposed to being a straight guessing game. reaVer: the problem with trying to do late j.HS on most characters in open play is that you leave yourself open to simpler anti-air options like 6Ps and whatnot. You can do j.HS earlier to stuff those moves and get CHs for combos, but then you leave yourself open to the invincible reversal again, as well as possibly getting IBed and thrown when you land if you are too close. This option is more realistic on wakeup because you can jump while the opponent is knocked down and unable to do anything aside from reversing on wakeup, which is where the late j.HS's effectiveness is shown.

[reaVer]

Sure, but the fact you're getting 6P'd pretty much means you're predictable with your air attack. After jumping up with j.P you can also AD PPP... or do a doublejump as a bait. And you can always decide to stay on the ground, making your jumps less noticable.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

AD PPP will also get 6Ped or reversed. Doublejumping is a better option, though this leaves you open to being airthrown more easily.

[LM_Akira]

I find when I double jump I end up eating VV and the like too easily due to HOS's low jump (especially when I don't have much momentum to begin with). Unless I dj back on myself. I see Kaqn baiting anti air moves quite often with dj and landing j.HS on CH way too easily it seems. I just get swatted out of the air when I try it.

[reaVer]

It's because he mixes them up good, he won't just go for air attack everytime, he djs back, he AD PPPs and if he didn't do that he still puts up faultless shield so he doesn't eat random crap; and when he gets to the ground he can still attempt throw. It's pretty much the vast amount of experience he has over most players.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I honestly think AD PPP is not a good tactic to use very often. Airdashing in general is risky and too easy to reverse against. I don't see it done very often at all in matches either.

[POscrub]

Just for the record 2HS should still be throw invincible. They simply forgot to include it in the guide book. See errata.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The errata mentioned on Arcadia's website refers only to the backdash data in the very back of the book. Nothing else is mentioned.

[POscrub]

Xenophobian posted this.

http://ggxx.jugem.jp/?eid=155#sequel

I listed some of the fixes that should've been done and posted them in as an errata.txt attachment.

・P256 （聖騎士団ソルフレームデータ欄）

2HSに投げ無敵の記述がない

＞/から健在のはずで、P226下段にも表記されてます

P256 (Order Sol Frame Data)

2HS throw invincibility isn't listed.

> Property should still be there from Slash, lower column (table?) on page 226 lists it.

[LM_Akira]

Very interesting. I don't have my mook to hand right now to try and check. I've actually been thrown out of 2HS a couple of times in fights but I guess that comes from me using the move too late. I'll try to test it out in training. Is it still throw inv from the 17th to the 22nd frame then or have the throw inv frames been altered?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Ok, I see it now. It's a note attached to one of the pictures in the character strategy section for HOS. The throw invincibility is also listed in the initial color section where all moves are pictured and briefly discussed. Good to know.

[reaVer]

easy to test too.

I honestly think AD PPP is not a good tactic to use very often. Airdashing in general is risky and too easy to reverse against. I don't see it done very often at all in matches either.

Therefore: MIXUP! WITH LOVE!

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

A lot of characters can reverse/AA airdashes on sight pretty easily, so I'm not seeing the mixup. Airdash is only good when opponents are otherwise occupied (ie in recovery from doing something they shouldn't have been doing). Do other stuff, it's better and safer.

[LM_Akira]

Just for the record

2HS should still be throw invincible. They simply forgot to include it in the guide book. See errata.

Yeah, just to reiterate this, the throw invincibility is correctly listed in the Complete Guide, on the 17th to the 22nd frame as in Slash.

[Hatred Edge]

Okay I can tech pretty well but in here lies the problem: I have no idea on how to maximize the use of teching. Let me give you an example: vs Johnny. I tech as soon as I can which results in me being airthrown. Another is vs Eddie. Once again I tech too damn early which in turn finds a huge claw up my ass. Now how does one use tech when they can? When should I just not tech? Hell once after Slayer did "The Rest" I teched and as I was about to land he did 2S jc into "the rest". Teching advice needed.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

1. Always be prepared to block when you tech. In the case of your Slayer example, you would FD his 2S to avoid being comboed again. 2. Try not to tech at the earliest possible moment. Alter your tech timing to be a little bit later or a lot later, depending on what you think will mess up your opponent's trap timing. 3. Remember that techs are invincible on startup. You can use this to avoid imprecise tech traps using slow moves with long recovery. 4. Neutral tech when possible. Forward and backward techs are faster (ie you can tech earlier than when you can neutral tech), but you "bounce" into the air and leave yourself open to more tech traps. Neutral tech reaches the ground faster than either of these techs, so when you have room to use it, do so. This will force your opponent to think through their tech catches and keep you from constantly eating "free" damage. Also, this is a more generic type of question as opposed to a question specific to HOS, so please, in the future, post something like this in the general forum and not here. If you post here again with this type of question, I will delete it without responding.

[LM_Akira]

Action Charge can't be negative edged, so releasing D after doing a move won't give you an Action Charge, it'll give you nothing. You'd need to press D again. As pretty much all of HOS's specials have slightly different uses depending on their level, what I do to conserve level is situational. Normally I will simply press P+D together to do Lv1 BHB at Lv2 and so on. Backdash (D) Lv1 RI is another example of something I might do. Only thing you need to worry about is GB (as HOS players will know, you need to have D held down beforehand) in which case I'll have D held down from "something" (backdash, sweep, j.D...). Everything else is probably most easily done by simply hitting D and "whatever" button at the same time.

[reaVer]

Nope, I don't hold the D button throughout the match. And I rarely use chargekeep for that matter, the only reasons for me to chargekeep are GB and attempt to obtain lvl3 with a quick BHB. With GB, it's done from a setup, so I'm already holding down D and with BHB I press P+D. VS arcade I-no, where she sets up the thing that fills the entire screen, where you have to jump over, I chargekeep SV to obtain or keep level 3 for l3TR. Though more importantly, I barely use special moves, so chargekeep isn't really an issue for me. And who said you need to get into a defensive position to do manual charge? You can do it right into your offense, make them try to poke you, and then BAM!!! CH FAFNIR BITCH!! or some shit like that. Using it there is kind of the ideal mindfuck to use on your opponent. "Of course, that's not to say I don't use Charge Stance for the Fire Burst properties if I'm cornered. (input can be half a second to almost instant 214D,H)" <--- stop doing this, you're fucking yourself over against anyone that's even remotely good. If you have 25% tension it's even safer to SV and then use AC FRC to save yourself from CH state which is unavoidable with 214D,H.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I merged this with General Discussion since I didn't feel it was important enough to warrant its own thread.

[A.B.A-can-do]

Anyone use Order-Sol's insta-kill or have any good combos for it? I just found it through the use of GG OS at a friends house and I have set the goal to do a 20hit combo that finishes with his insta. Anyone go anytips?

[Hatred Edge]

A 20 hit combo??? Dragon Install will never connect. The pushback would be too great and it will miss. DI itself is only 9 hits, where are you gonna get the other 11 hits? There might be some combo into 5HS IAD j.P but why would you try to make things harder for yourself? Plus if somehow you managed to do a 20 hit combo with Dragon Install from all hits before it, the damage from Dragon Install would decrease thanks to the guard guage. Just keep it simple like 2S>5HS or 5S>5HS. Jump in with j.HS>5S>5HS>DI. You'll still get big damage.