[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Eshi]

Pick up opponents that don't emergency tech after 623C~D/2D LV1/Infinite Rush/etc. with 2B. It's a "mix-up" since they have to guess between emergency teching and dealing with oki or a setup, or not teching and eating a particle flare for 1240 extra damage. It's a great way to immediately close out the round after a big corner combo.

Also, you can jump towards them like you're going to do an air overhead, but land and do 2B instead. Works like a charm.

214ACB is a super bad mix-up, don't use it without meter ever. Even then, I tend to use 214ACA more. For some reason people rarely stop blocking low, and it has 100% P1 proration for amazing damage.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Eshi

[Eshi]

...one of these days I'm gonna actually update all the info I put here onto the wiki, lol

[Reisi]

Yeah, I think we already have a solid base to work upon, it's just that everyone is either too lazy or doesn't want to be responsible for it directly. :x

[StarGazer]

My Makoto match up chart based on how much i suffer ;_;

RG: 4.0

JI: 5

NO: 4.5

TG: 4.5

TK: 4.0

RA: 4.5

AR: 4.5

LI: 5.0

CA: 4.0

BA: 4.5

LA: 4.0

HK: 4.5

TS: 5.0

HZ: 4.5

MU: 4.0

MK: 4.0

VK: 4.0

PL: 4.5

RE: 5.0

Total = -10

Now i will go to complete the wiki ZZzzz...

[Bibiquadium]

Quick question, my PF's 3rd hit seems to whiff on Mu and Lambda which I find to be really ridiculous... Anyone else had this? And my personal worst matchup is probably Lambda, the rest I'm neutral.

[MarkusArx]

Can't say I've had that problem, outside of one time when I managed to get the first two hits on a Hazama without a microdash, and the third hit whiffed. I assume you always go for the dash, so I don't know why it'd whiff. I play Lambda very frequently and haven't seen it happen. =/

About the only thing I can say about the Lambda match is: patience, really. Makoto simply dies if she's too aggressive in her neutral. It's best to try and move around without air dash and Asteroid Vision. so you don't get caught by 2D or 6D. They'll try to tech roll a bit too, since Lambda doesn't have a legit wake up option until she has meter, so try to catch it with your 2B. Also, free damage if you read Lambda's Command dash correctly, too. You can poke her out of the A and C versions pretty easy.

[MashThat5A]

MK: 4.0

Makoto v Makoto - 6-4 Makoto's favor.

[Bibiquadium]

I'd say its more on Makoto's favor than Makoto tho.

[StarGazer]

Makoto v Makoto - 6-4 Makoto's favor.

Yeap, what it says exactly.

[StarGazer]

Corner Combos

-5A/2A/2B Starter: 5D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender

-5B/6B Starter: 5D > 214ACB > 5B 6A 2D > 2C 214AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender (credits for Reisi)

-5CC Starter: 5D > 6A 214ACD > 5CC 2D > 2C 236AD > 5CC > j.B j.D > Ender

-j.AA/j.B/j.C Air to Air Starter: j.D > 2D > 2C 236AD > 66A5D > Ender

-Forward Throw Starter: 6A > 5D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender

(Characters that accepts 5CC 5D): B+C > 214AD > 5CC 5D > 2D > 2C 236AD > 5CC > j.B j.D > Ender

-Back Throw Starter: 2B > 6A > j.B j.D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 66A5D > Ender

-6C Starter: 214ACD > 665A 6A 2D > j.D > 662C 236AD > 66A5D > Ender

[Reisi]

I did not expect this to work off of 2A, very handy for Valk/Jin:

(2A >) 5B > 5CC > 5D > 66 > 2B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~D > 665CC > j.B > j.D > ender

Also, I suppose it would be handy to know character specifics, so anyone who wants certain combo paths that might be specific tested, do share them. I've got some time this Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday, so I might try them out, along with these:

214ACB > 2A > 5CC /// 214ACB > 2A > 5B > 6A

5D > 5B > 6A

j.D > 5CC /// j.D > 5B > 6A

j.D > 6A

5D > 214ACB > 5B /// 5D > 214ACC > 5B

Also also: Whoever mentioned the 2D(1) > j.C safe jump setup earlier is my freaking hero. Felt like a boss going through/blocking Ashura *and* punishing it. That OS destroys people online.

[HIGEKING42]

to think cs2 was more balanced than ex.

[StarGazer]

I did not expect this to work off of 2A, very handy for Valk/Jin:

(2A >) 5B > 5CC > 5D > 66 > 2B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~D > 665CC > j.B > j.D > ender

Also, I suppose it would be handy to know character specifics, so anyone who wants certain combo paths that might be specific tested, do share them. I've got some time this Saturday/Sunday/Tuesday, so I might try them out, along with these:

214ACB > 2A > 5CC /// 214ACB > 2A > 5B > 6A

5D > 5B > 6A

j.D > 5CC /// j.D > 5B > 6A

j.D > 6A

5D > 214ACB > 5B /// 5D > 214ACC > 5B

Test these stuff, see on which characters does it work.

-214ACB > 5A (works on Tager, Hakumen, Rachel, Taokaka, Arakune. Check if there is someone else)

-B+C > 214AD > 5CC 5D

-2B (OTG) > 6A > 5D

Also also: Whoever mentioned the 2D(1) > j.C safe jump setup earlier is my freaking hero. Felt like a boss going through/blocking Ashura *and* punishing it. That OS destroys people online

.

Thats Eshi

[Domethieus]

There isn't a combo thread from what I can see other than post. Suggest to make a combo thread since it'll help players instead of being cluttered lol....CSEX

[Reisi]

Before posting my wall of text: Can someone please test B+C > 214A~D > 5CC on Jin again? I can't hit the link. I feel stupid. But maybe it's Jin's retarded air hitbox that makes 214A~D hit too early, no idea. I'd appreciate it.

As always, I got distracted when doing something in training mode...and found THIS: A sideswitch combo, dealing 7k damage, working from the corner until 1/3 away from the corner. Costs 100 meter though.

5C CH > 2C > 214A~D > PF [3/3/-] > BBS > (66)5D > (66)214A~C~B > 5B > 6A > 2D > j.D > 2366A~D > 5CC > hjc > j.CB > j.CB > j.623C~D

Deals 7060 damage exactly, I was able to delay j.623C~D in the combo above, so you'll be able to end with a better ender in terms of oki.

There are quite some things to keep in mind about this combo, I'll try to explain it in-depth without it becoming too complicated to understand. One of the most important things is the way you're hitting the 214A~D > PF. It requires you to be at a quite specific distance when launching the opponent. Try to be as close to your enemy as possible when hitting the PF. For that, you have to delay it a tiny bit, so that the 214A~D pushes you into the opponent a small distance, but before he gets launched off into the distance. Obviously, PF[2/3/-] will make this easier, since you can let yourself be pushed further/have more leeway in terms of timing. Just make sure the 2nd PF is level 3, so that the opponent gets pulled in a bit.

Start inputting the following BBS after you've launched the opponent (already in the direction he *will* be going, not the side he currently is on) and hit the D once he crosses you up. (If you think you missed the proper timing of the PF, you can rectify that by moving towards your opponent for a split second before doing the BBS.) This is another part that'll require some practice, since you'll have to get a feeling when BBS will hit the opponent and when it won't. Usually, you'll start the move when the opponent is descending. That way, the BBS will hit while it's already out for a while, allowing you to recover faster and making the combo possible. (The height the opponent is at can be different depending on how you hit the PF earlier.)

Depending on your distance from the corner by then, you might or might not have to dash in for the following hits. Also, if you're doing this when you and your opponent are literally at the edge of the corner, you'll have to add a 6A after the BBS to make the combo work. This'll also make the 5B > 6A > 2D a bit harder to hit, but not incredibly difficult either.

It really sounds a lot more complex than it is, practicing this for a couple of minutes will give a much better idea of what the fuck I'm talking about. It's not extremely difficult either, practical in a match, if you ask me. Plus, learning a few things about BBS will come in handy when you need to improvise a carry combo on the fly.

Actually, this combo also works when your opponent is in the corner, but there are so many tight timings, so precise spacing and most likely tons of hitbox-related specifics that it's way too risky doing in an actual match.

I didn't expect to write this much about one single combo...(I could also list some trouble-shooting advice here, but I think this is quite enough already. :V)

Edited March 18, 2012 by Reisi

[HIGEKING42]

that's a combo for mid screen right.

[Reisi]

Side switch, so your back to the corner. Works from the corner to 1/3rd away from the corner. It's...kind of midscreen, you might want to say.

[Domethieus]

Need help comboing into her 214ACB in the corner from 2C. 5CC > 5D > 2D > 2C > 214ACB > etc

Any tips?

Also her grab > 214AA 6A

Edited March 19, 2012 by Domethieus

[Reisi]

You shouldn't do that corner combo for two reasons:

1) Depending on your starter (for instance 2A), the proration will be too bad to allow 214A~C~B by then. The hitstun will be juuust not enough.

2) If your starter is a strong one (5B or 5C), you should go for a different combo altogether:

Corner Combos

-5A/2A/2B Starter: 5D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender

-5B/6B Starter: 5D > 214ACB > 5B 6A 2D > 2C 214AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender (credits for Reisi)

-5CC Starter: 5D > 6A 214ACD > 5CC 2D > 2C 236AD > 5CC > j.B j.D > Ender

214A~A > 6A is character specific. For the rest of the characters, you'll have to do 214A~A > 66A, if I'm not mistaken.

(I should really go to sleep. :V)

[Goldchampion200]

Hello DL peoplez i usually lurk around here and never post BUT after getting my tail handed to me several times (about 0-20 to be exact) by a very good Rawrgna i was wondering if anyone could give me the general Do's and Dont's of that matchup also For tager 2 a friend of mine has lots of problems VS tager and im horrible at teaching Thanks in advance and sorry if this isnt the place for this question.

[Domethieus]

Oh okay, Thanks.

@Makoto Mods: Mind if I create a CSE Combo thread for now?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Domethieus

[HIGEKING42]

you forgot about 2b as well

[Bibiquadium]

This is a call for a CSEX Matchup Thread.

[OmniSScythe]

I'll start it off myself on Tuesday/Wednesday morning.

Oh okay, Thanks.

@Makoto Mods: Mind if I create a CSE Combo thread for now?

Sure thing, I can't honestly say I enjoy her combos enough to work on it. Just try to keep stuff match practical.

[Eshi]

I'll start it off myself on Tuesday/Wednesday morning.

Awesome! I've been waiting for new match-up threads to be posted, I've wanted to post tons of stuff about it. Especially Tager.