[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[HIGEKING42]

LOL and the fagna and valk hate is still going strong.

[kotokot]

i'm so salty after mu=(losing with makoto about 4-15 and win same mu with haku 10-1=(

[StarGazer]

Makoto vs Tager

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOIZ9zHWvs&t=5m25s

i'm so salty after mu=(losing with makoto about 4-15 and win same mu with haku 10-1=(

Mu is bad and annoying match up but not thaaaat much, Tager vs Makoto is more dumb in my opinion because in this match up no matter how good you are there is this huge percent that Tager will destroy you, and i am not talking just about 720

[Reisi]

People underestimate Tager's pokes. They are exceptionally good. The only thing he lacks regarding those is a dash (that would make him way too strong). E.g. 5B, it has an amazing hitbox and can knock you out of a bunch of stuff, 5C has good range, etc. And once he scores the right hit, he'll have 50 heat and can confirm any call-out into huge damage/heat again. (22D > RC backdash punish into 50+ heat ftw). Plus, he has the respect up close that we lost during the transition from CS2 to CS:E. We can't just force mix-up on him without a second thought anymore nor outdamage him without the corner/CH.

TL;DR Tager is legit.

Also, when entering a tournament, practice your drive combos offline before your matches. :V

[MarkusArx]

Man, I've been playing too much of Skullgirls as of late. @_@ Dropping charges makes me feel like being in Day 1 all over again.

[kotokot]

tager isn't that annoying in neutral game. But you have to play safely or try to read your opponent, his risk-reward is much higher in any your mixup(spin to win). But tager specifics makes life better, i.e. 5A on crouching and 5CC j.CC 5CC combos

[Reisi]

Ehh, I'd disagree on that. Tager can be a bitch at neutral, if he knows how to stuff your approaches. I know I keep going on about it, but his 5B is damn good. Same with 5A, you can stick that out at neutral and watch the opponent put his arm/leg into it and get CH'd. It's not a free hit of course, it needs appropriate use. But he has some potent tools at neutral, it's just his speed that let's his opponent choose when they want to get in and when not to.

But characters like Makoto can't even play it as safely as you should be since her range is crap. She can't just stay back and slowly work his health down. She has to get in and take some risks simply to deal her average damage, we aren't even talking about godlike starters. In order for her mix-up to come into play, you'd have to stay in Tager's comfort zone for way too long. Sure, it's not the worst nor the most annoying match-up in the world. But you need to be very careful and crafty to get your damage in.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Reisi

[kotokot]

almost every char gives makoto problems in neutral. Damage on tager seems much better, since you have to use 214C~D sometimes after 5CC and you have better combo for standing on midscreen. Worst thing in that that matchup, tager now have cs2 makoto corner damage and meter gain from anything lol.

[SolAscension]

Need some help trying to figure out if there's a higher damage ender to a corner specific 2a/5a starter Jin combo I've been working on, right now I can end with mars chopper for about 3.1k and oki, but I haven't gotten proficient enough with it to see if I can... extend the combo (sorry for the pun, I had to).

2a/5a >5cc> 5d > 2b > 6a > 2d > 2c > 214 a~d > 5cc > j.b > j.d > ??? (can 214 a~c~a here)

I'll keep working on it, but any suggestions on what to do after the j.d would be appreciated. If anyone does mess around with it, the timing on break is a little weird, but it is valid. If you notice how much heat gain it creates that would be cool also.

Edited April 23, 2012 by SolAscension

[kotokot]

2B>5CC>j.623C~D or 2B>5CC>sj.C>j.B>j.CC>j.623C~D or 2B>5CC>j.B>j.D>PF. 2B>6A at combo start ruining proration.

[SolAscension]

I completely ruined that notation and forgot a few parts of it lol. Correct combo is :

2a/5a >5cc> 5d > 2b > 6a > 2d > 2c > 214 a~d > 5cc > j.b > j.d > ??? (can 214 a~c~a here)

Edited April 23, 2012 by SolAscension

[HIGEKING42]

either 214A-ca or 2d(lvl1) 236A

[HIGEKING42]

Also you'll know if you're fighting a good TG or a bad one.if the TG decides to jump in the air just grab him before he does 2c. Don't ever jump in on TG unless you know they can't handle a jump in. The best way to handle a TG player is to lame him out. He has to approach you you and his approach options are very minimal. A good TG player just walks forward or jumps in the air, but jumping is risky for him so walking forwar is his best option.If he sledges that's a super bad idea for him and you can punish that mistake with a 5b. 2d just jump over and punish it.TG can't full comit to anything or else it's suicide. So the whole match is just to lame TG out while waiting for his mistake. Also i would throw in a few 5b's just to see how he'll react to it. Also if he backdashes the 5b you can OS that with a 5cc and he gets hit for free damage.

[Bibiquadium]

I came to the conclusion that netplaying was atrocious, having to adapt to new drive timings depending on who you fight most normally easy BnB becomes blue beats, heck, since when you can't 2A 5CC 6B 5C on a crouching opponent? Not sure how you guys deal with that. And that is versus people with a 3 or a 4. Either PSN is pure ass or BBCSEX netcode is ass or both put together. /rant

[kotokot]

"Fuck Netplay, really"

though 4 feels almost like offline(xbl), but there is only 1-2 ppl with that good connect(

i don't even try to dash in blockstrings and do 2362366D online.

[Goldchampion200]

I came to the conclusion that netplaying was atrocious, having to adapt to new drive timings depending on who you fight most normally easy BnB becomes blue beats, heck, since when you can't 2A 5CC 6B 5C on a crouching opponent? Not sure how you guys deal with that. And that is versus people with a 3 or a 4. Either PSN is pure ass or BBCSEX netcode is ass or both put together. /rant

Its mostly just practice play with laggy people long enough and u start getting a feel for when u should let go of the drive button at least thats how ive dealt with it.

[Bibiquadium]

I'll just stick to offline, its better for my health

[Ragnarok_F4]

Its mostly just practice play with laggy people long enough and u start getting a feel for when u should let go of the drive button at least thats how ive dealt with it.

Exactly, you just have to play and play, until you get the right timing. Of course, that will screw the offline timing (at least that happened to me), but after some time of playing both online and offline, you will just need a match or two to re-adapt to the respective timing. Still lag is a huge disadvantage for makoto because of that.

I think lag affects everyone, but the ones that get a bonus of the lag are the chars that hit hard with small combos (*ahem*...tager I'm looking to you!)

[HIGEKING42]

Well when it says 4 bar for me that becomes the most wonkiest connection so i like 3 bar more.

[SolAscension]

Extend netcode is horrible. Especially trying to play Makoto.

On another note, is it normal to be able to 6c through a dead spike on wake up? Lol.

[MarkusArx]

Extend netcode is horrible. Especially trying to play Makoto.

On another note, is it normal to be able to 6c through a dead spike on wake up? Lol.

Pretty sure it's not? Ragna player may have just mistimed his Oki or something?

[excelence]

My common sense agree with the above post, but checking frame data... DS has twice the amount of start up of 6c... now i'm curious how 6c fare as reversal on common knock down > DS setup.

[Domethieus]

Tager so gay to fight against along with Carl T_T

[kotokot]

My common sense agree with the above post, but checking frame data... DS has twice the amount of start up of 6c... now i'm curious how 6c fare as reversal on common knock down > DS setup.

no way. you have enough disadvantage after knockdown. 2362366D seems the only reliable option. Sometimes you can jump or mash dash 2A, but not 6C.

Tager so gay to fight against along with Carl T_T

Tager always was gay, now he have shitloads of damage and meter from anything(5C>7k). Carl is pretty hard to fight, but everyone drops combos and resets even in japan.

[SolAscension]

I wanna dick around with it. It's happened a few times to me honestly. I was looking at the hit box for 6c and dead spike and look what I found.

Makoto 6C: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/makoto/6C.html

Notice the start-up as she spins, her leg hitbox moves back, leaving only her middle vulnerable at that point.

Here's dead spike : http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/ragna/214D.html

Notice how the bottom hitbox matches against Makoto?

I'm not claiming this might actually work reliably, but it has happened to me repeatedly, and left me somewhat dumbfounded, because it looks like i should be getting hit by deadspike (the spikes actually go through my body) but instead 6C connects. It'd be funny if 6C was actually a way out of deadspike pressure. Backhand Ragna to the face!