Starlight777 Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 all of them I'm using 2 and 9, since there's a lack of candy colors.
Starlight777 Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 candy? BB's ungodly bright pink/cream dlc palettes.
Eladrien Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 5A: 200 5A[A]: 9 x ? (500 dmg total with max hits) 5AA[A]: 12 x ? (750 dmg total with max hits) 5AA: 470 (5A autocombo to second hit) 5AAA: 873 (5A autocombo to third hit) 2A: 160 5B: 9 x ? (750 dmg total with max hits) 2B: 450 5C: 800 x 2 (1200 dmg total with both hits) 2C: 600 5D: 0, 900, 450 (1350 dmg total) 2D: 0 (inflicts Poison) Throw: 0, 1400 AoA Overhead: 300, 1280 with 15-hit AoA follow-up (without launch or blockback attack) j.A: 200 j.B: 5 x ? (540 dmg total with max hits) j.C: 850 j.D: 0, 900, 450 (1350 dmg total) A Zio: 180 x 10 (990 dmg with max hits) B Zio: 180 x 10 (990 dmg with max hits) SB Zio: 134 x 20 (1407 dmg with max hits) A Bufu: 800, ? (1195 dmg with both hits) B Bufu: 800, ? (1195 dmg with both hits) SB Bufu: 800, ? (1216 dmg with both hits) C Agi: 300 x 9 (1443 dmg with max hits) D Agi: 300 x 9 (1443 dmg with max hits) SB Agi: ? x 11 (1669 dmg with max hits) C Garu: 200 x 9 (1000 dmg with max hits) D Garu: 310 x 10 (1705 dmg with max hits) SB Garu: 280 x 11 (1680 dmg with max hits) Memento Mori (Ghastly Wail): 0,0,2500 (4200 with Fatal Counter [Fear]) I'll be figuring out the other values with combo testing but that's what I have so far. "Max Hits" means the damage the move does when all hits connect. The 5A[A] and 5AA[A] means the single hit of that move in the autocombo. 5AA and 5AAA means all hits/moves in the autocombo up to that point. Nice work. There's something important to point out concerning Elizabeth's damage that most people don't seem to notice. Using 2C (Thanatos' burst looking move) gives Thanatos' next "physical attack" a +50% damage buff. The moves that I've noticed benefiting from this buff are 5C, j.C, and Momento Mori. That means 6300 damage on Momento Mori on a feared target after "charging up" Thanatos with 2C. I haven't figured out if this hidden buff has a duration on it or not though. Also, this hidden buff on Thanatos only seems to be expended on a hit, and getting the buff on Thanatos does not require 2C to hit your opponent. It's probably not a major find or anything considering most of Elizabeth's combos incorporate 2C, but I found it to be an interesting mechanic.
SansProtocol Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 That buff stays regardless of Elizabeth getting hit or put into blockstun, if the first and subsequent attacks are blocked, or if anything whiffs (like her grab). You've said some of this already but the thing to note is neither of Bufu's hits count as physical attacks to trigger the buff being used. You can do a full combo like 2C> ???? > Bufu > Zio and still have the buff to do a Memento Mori reset for 6300. If you're not in Awakening, you have Mind Charge to push yourself into during the first combo or after into MM. As stated before, you can have 2C blocked and still receive the buff. However, I didn't have the chance or forethought to see if you get the buff on a whiffed 2C.
Elochai Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 So what colors you guys using when y'all get your hands on this game? I personally like 11 the most. So, it'll be 11 or 1 for me. Aren't the colors after 8 DLC though?
TD Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 l'm beginning to see how matchups are played with elizabeth, so i'll be writing some stuff down now for every matchup. since we dont have the game just yet, which means everything l write is strictly theory until proven otherwise, i'll just write stuff down in a notepad, test everything when the game comes out, and we should have a basic outline of all/some of the matchups by the first week! l figured some of you guys may be doing the same: l encourage all of us to share what we have. it's imperative that we learn the matchups ASAP so that liz matches aren't 'get a lucky hit or die really quickly'.
YukiBlue Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 I'm going to plan ahead of time with P4U and pick a single character. Never to deviate from them. Elizabeth looks really unique, so could someone give me a lowdown on her? What type of character is she? She looks like some kind of Neo-Zoning character.
xlolxlolx Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 shes like a weird kinda hybrid zoner who focuses on fishing for random hits with pokes i guess?
TD Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I'm going to plan ahead of time with P4U and pick a single character. Never to deviate from them. Elizabeth looks really unique, so could someone give me a lowdown on her? What type of character is she? She looks like some kind of Neo-Zoning character. read the data thread
C0R Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 So 2c is godlike. Also this character's damage is hilarious, I love it.
Juunee Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I can definitely see Liz becoming a more Pressure-with-thanatos-and-bait-the-primer-pop style. It seems reckless since Liz is so persona dependent, but I think realistically the matches that Liz wins are from confirming one large combo and then a second and very few characters are able to survive two liz combos. Basically you auction up those 4 primers as your chances to get in and if you make it work and you get them fearalyzed in a corner then the match is basically yours.
Starlight777 Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 In other words, you have to take ballsy chances with her to make things happen? I like that.
TD Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 she can win in a variety of different ways. l think she's more of a stall/punish type character who can do everything (not well), and very sp reliant to remain safe and continue pressure. she reminds me alot of rachel because of how smoothly she can transition from rushdown, zoning, and defense (and invigorate is like wind, very essential to her gameplay and needed for lv3xf mori). for the most part thought her strats are going to be MU-dependant.
Juunee Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Her sp usage is definitely going to be MU-dependent. Against Yosuke/narukami/mitsuru paralysis is worth about jack and shit because of the mobility they have access to anyway. Also, I'd like to observe that Bufu -> AOA -> RC -> Memento mori is the best finisher ever and should be used whenever possible. There is something way too satisfying about clocking someone with the book and then hitting them with mm.
Elochai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I was surprised the Bufu > AOA > OMC > MM combo wasn't in challenge mode tbh.
TD Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 it is indeed good just make sure the foe is feared first, 2c is like the go-to way because of it's ease and reliability. that red liz in the vids are good but he's kinda autopiloting... vs that mitsuru, this is where that OS is being used vs 5c(2), you just hold up-back and it'll block 2c and dodge 5d. 5c is air blockable so even if liz does it again the foe could just 7 out :/ l would love to see a liz start doing stuff like 5c(2) OMC bufu/j.5d. fuck your chicken blocking OS.
Kiba Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 Her sp usage is definitely going to be MU-dependent. Against Yosuke/narukami/mitsuru paralysis is worth about jack and shit because of the mobility they have access to anyway. I would think that paralysis is good against anyone. It also gives you breathing space and some time to regain some SP. I would rather Yosuke was in one position and resorting to short hops and whatever rather than moving around viciously like a wild bull. Mitsuru's and Yu's normals are far to annoying to deal with too. I could be wrong, but I like paralysis anyway. There is something way too satisfying about clocking someone with the book and then hitting them with mm. Haha. I agree yea TD I would like to see the same thing as well really, though unfortunately that probably wouldn't work against Akihiko since Giovanni pointed out that he has an OS against Liz's mixup. Not sure if anyone noticed.
GBS Giovanni Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I think 5C(1) will be the better string to throw out to train your opponent than the complete 5CC. I don't believe they can jump out of 5C>2C, seen several people get hit during the 5C>2C and it was a CH, which means they either stopped blocking or was holding up during it. Also 5D seems to come out quicker off 5C, making it a little harder to react to. Mixing up 5C and 5CC strings is what going to force people to actually block and react instead of chicken block the entire thing. Though I seriously wish either 2C was air unblockable or you could cancel 5CC into Bufu on block. Would make a world of difference.
Twilight child Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys! First time posting here in Liz's thread so please do bear with me. So I already have a copy and have a few concerns about stuff. First of all, gotta love the position reset at practice mode. Being able to direct your position reset to the left/right corner of the screen is one welcome addition to training options! (long gone are the days of pushing characters to a corner) Next, Seems like you can't (or it's too god awful hard) combo Liz's 5AAA > D.Garu[3] > 5A > etc on Brotagonist where 5A doesn't seem to connect. Is it just me not mashing 5A hard enough? Also, that challenge mode with SB Bufu starter > airdash JB (land) > 5B seems to be Yu specific too. Any thoughts on this, other peeps who got the copy? haven't really had the luxury of time because of work I think it didn't work on Naoto, Yukiko, and Mitsuru. Totally not sure though since I just might be sucking on that IAD combo. Aside from that, I found my own day 1 setup for 5D. Just condition the opponent with the staple bnb of 5AAA> D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B >etc combo and do 5AAA> D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5D when they're already conditioned. If they're holding buttons to recover from the last 5A then opponent will fall right into 5D for a throw reset. Edit: Forgot teching also works like BB. this is only going to be the case if they neutral tech. if they tech Upwards then JD would catch them. If they tech away, they won't be caught though. But at least it leaves you at around midscreen distance which is fairly okay for Liz's 5B Also, even Whiffing 2C would still register the Thanatos damage buff. Tested it out with Memento Mori. hope to hear more from you guys. Seeing shitloads of potential for Liz here! :D Edited July 31, 2012 by Twilight child
Eladrien Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 There's definitely some character specific stuff with Elizabeth. One of the bigger ones I've noticed involves one of her Challenge Mode combos that starts with 5D > 2AB. The sweep will pick up everyone out of Thanatos' throw except for Yosuke, Aigis, and Teddie. I also have problems with the D.Garu combos on Yu, but on Yosuke, it's fairly easy to do something like D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 2AB > D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 2AB > D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 5C(2) > A.Bufu > A.Bufu > j.C for meterless ~4800 damage.
Twilight child Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 There's definitely some character specific stuff with Elizabeth. One of the bigger ones I've noticed involves one of her Challenge Mode combos that starts with 5D > 2AB. The sweep will pick up everyone out of Thanatos' throw except for Yosuke, Aigis, and Teddie. I also have problems with the D.Garu combos on Yu, but on Yosuke, it's fairly easy to do something like D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 2AB > D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 2AB > D.Garu[3] > 5A > 5B > 5C(2) > A.Bufu > A.Bufu > j.C for meterless ~4800 damage. Ahh figured as much. Better just focus on Mitsuru, Akihiko, Chie and Yuu combos since they're most likely going to have an army of players. And awesome combo. Seems really effective for that Garu starter 50/50 mixup from atop an opponent. Better test these out on real people when I get the chance.
Juunee Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 TK Garu after a j.C in the corner and swim in the tears of players that will never get to awakening because you're killing them from 5k out.
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