shtkn Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 you are wrong. SMP is Same Move Proration. Meaning when you do the same attack twice (or more in one combo) additional proration is applied. This is different from P1/P2 which you do describe correctly.
shinobispectre Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 Do you mean "is it a good combo starter?" If so, then no. It is slow and unsafe. It can be useful if you use it in a really hyper-specific way or use it to abuse the armor. If you get the fatal counterhit by getting all 15 hits of the mashing, you can connect j.b> j.bb> double jump j.b>j.c>j.214B>Ziodyne. You cannot chain from j.bb > j.C. Just drop the last j.bb and go directly to j.C. You shouldn't be doing that combo anyway off 214B, you should be doing 214B -> 2B -> j.c -> j.214B -> 2B -> j.c -> j.214A. Got it! Thank you!
Chris Chaos Posted September 10, 2012 Author Posted September 10, 2012 just make sure you cancel the sweep ASAP, hit with it as high as possible. Timing is hard to describe, but youll get it eventually. @darkpath Adding on to this; you want to cancel sweep into Raging Lion before pressing 5DD, the timing is really strict so you have to input it pretty fast. Once I did this, it made doing this set up easier for me.
darkpath Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 @darkpath Adding on to this; you want to cancel sweep into Raging Lion before pressing 5DD, the timing is really strict so you have to input it pretty fast. Once I did this, it made doing this set up easier for me. Finally made it.. the timing is more strict than 66>5B but I managed to get it somehow.. damage boost is about 200+ and raging lions are much easier to connect because of the loss of 5B p2.. thanks guys
Kikuichimonji Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 you are wrong. SMP is Same Move Proration. Meaning when you do the same attack twice (or more in one combo) additional proration is applied. This is different from P1/P2 which you do describe correctly.I called it the wrong name, eh. I thought that the only P2 in this game (and Blazblue) was supposed to be starting proration and SMP. You said P2 is different than SMP? How so? I know in GG forced proration is different because it's always applied, is that the distinction you're making?
skd Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) I called it the wrong name, eh. I thought that the only P2 in this game (and Blazblue) was supposed to be starting proration and SMP. You said P2 is different than SMP? How so? I know in GG forced proration is different because it's always applied, is that the distinction you're making? smp is when moves used multiple time in a combo will add additional proration. If you watch the video i posted about 5d combo examples at high proration it should clear things up for you the combo using sweep as opposed to 5b twice after the 5d connects(the 1st combo), but if 5b is used twice it drops(third combo, but works at the second combo because 5b wasnt previously used despite the proration being similar at the point the 5d connects). thats because every time you use 5b in a combo it prorates differently. So, say the p2 for 5b is 95. Upon using it a second time, it will apply a "different" p2 depending on the moves smp property (10% additional prorate,60% something like that). 5B, 2B, 2C(?), j214A, j214B, 214A, 214B, 214C and some other things have same move proration. it "affects" p2 but it isnt the same as p2 it might not be /totally/ right but the concept definitely is. some moves have incredibly high repeat proration, some are very slight. im guessing you didnt play bb :v Edited September 10, 2012 by not_lunaris
Blossomforth Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 So does adding 2 5Bs in a combo make the overall combo weaker due to SMP? I notice several OMB combos involve many 5Bs in them.
skd Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 So does adding 2 5Bs in a combo make the overall combo weaker due to SMP? I notice several OMB combos involve many 5Bs in them. yes, but 5b does more damage than 2b. 2b is useful because its faster and produces a better height for additional reps. SMP for 5b and 2b isnt exactly negligible but its possible to use 5b multiple times for the raw damage and end the combo in a similar place despite the SMP. Its not that harsh, and in some cases give you more damage. But! As an example, in OMB 5D combos, any combo that uses sweep 214B as opposed to 5b 214b will outdamage it due to avoidance of smp and higher raw damage.
Blossomforth Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Neat! Wasn't aware of how SMP work, but yeah it can make minor effects to some combos (but the effects are there). Using various was of doing my combos now since being educated on the subject. I'm now using my sweep mid-juggle like how you're going about doing it. It isn't giving me more damage per-say, but it's allow me to extend my combo (making overall more powerful lol. The video you made shows that). I'm doing an old OMB combo, and replacing a 5B to sweep in the combo only adds about 50 more damage. I'll need to work on this some more to get more damage out of simple mid-screen OMB combos. Meow.
xlolxlolx Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 should note that smp also decreases untech time which makes some stuff not work
Blossomforth Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 should note that smp also decreases untech time which makes some stuff not work It sucks that there's no official frame data on the game. Yea, figuring out most of this stuff isn't too hard... for most of the moves! Official list would give a better idea of what to aim for. So, I'm guessing all moves have SMP but act differently according to the move. Do some moves that Yu has avoid the laws of SMP? How is j.C effected by this?
xlolxlolx Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) smp isnt on every move......just alot of them j.c proly doesn't have it cuz it would be very noticable drop in dmg if it did think of smp as force proration and p2 as -GB from gg Edited September 11, 2012 by xlolxlolx
Blossomforth Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 I see, thanks for the input. You guys have been really helpful. So I guess with that said, adding OMB in the combo, what's the best you can get starting with 5B?
skd Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I see, thanks for the input. You guys have been really helpful. So I guess with that said, adding OMB in the combo, what's the best you can get starting with 5B? in corner/traveling to corner Meterless:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D Dash 2B 5B 5DD 214B j214B 2B jC j214A 5AAA (Jump DP at the end if you need to squeeze out a liiiittle more) 25 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 5B jC j214A 5AAA 50 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 2AB 214B 214A 5DD 2B 5B 5C jBB jB(1)B BD Ziodyne(Non awakening, cross slash enders always do more damage by a really slight amount) 50 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D Dash 2AB 5DD 214B 2B jC j214B 2B jC j214A Cross Slash 75 meter: 5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 2B 5C jBB jBB BD Ziodyne 75 meter: 5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 5B jC j214A Cross Slash 100 meter:5B 5C 214CD OMB 5D...(Same as 75 meter, you use 214CD to push into corner) Edited September 12, 2012 by not_lunaris
Blossomforth Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 in corner/traveling to corner Meterless:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D Dash 2B 5B 5DD 214B j214B 2B jC j214A 5AAA (Jump DP at the end if you need to squeeze out a liiiittle more) 25 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 5B jC j214A 5AAA 50 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 2AB 214B 214A 5DD 2B 5B 5C jBB jB(1)B BD Ziodyne(Non awakening, cross slash enders always do more damage by a really slight amount) 50 Meter:5B 5C 214D OMB 5D Dash 2AB 5DD 214B 2B jC j214B 2B jC j214A Cross Slash 75 meter: 5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 2B 5C jBB jBB BD Ziodyne 75 meter: 5B 5C 214D OMB 5D 214B 214A 5DD 5B 5C j214AB 5B jC j214A Cross Slash 100 meter:5B 5C 214CD OMB 5D...(Same as 75 meter, you use 214CD to push into corner) As always, thanks for the info. You play on Xbox Live by any chance? :o
skd Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 no i have a ps3 but i dont really netplay at all ;_;
skd Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 AoA~D combos! 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 5B jC j214B 5AAA (Damage, meter, burst) 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 5B 2C 44 2AB 236C 214124C (Max damage into cross slash) 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 2B jC j214B 5D (Oki, ground tech!!!!!!! You can also use 5B, but 2B makes meaty oki a ton easier due to j214B hitting higher) 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 2B 5C SJ jBB BD 236236C (4030 off aoa, super ender no awakening) you are welcome
Tong Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Timing on BD C Ziodyne is really weird... can't cancel too late, nor too early.
Blossomforth Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 no i have a ps3 but i dont really netplay at all ;_; Sad face. If we meet in person, I'll help you buy a xbox. Loved you in the blazblue days, too. lolololol LOOLOL!! HAHAHAHAH1! KDSAJF;LDSKAJF;ADSKLFKF;L!! Sorry... your combos are putting me into a seizure. But uh... for more damage. For your AoA combos, going for oki you posted: 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 2B jC j214B 5D Isn't better to do: Dust, D, 2B, 5B, 5C, TK B Dive, 2B, 2C, Sweep It does like 40 more damage (not much) but you get sweep oki. Sure you can get oki off random 214B knockdown stuff, but...... I DUNNO, MORE DAMAGE!!
VR-Raiden Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) For your AoA combos, going for oki you posted: 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 2B jC j214B 5D Isn't better to do: Dust, D, 2B, 5B, 5C, TK B Dive, 2B, 2C, Sweep It does like 40 more damage (not much) but you get sweep oki. Sure you can get oki off random 214B knockdown stuff, but...... I DUNNO, MORE DAMAGE!!When I'm doing it they're air teching after the sweep. Make sure you have air tech set on. EDIT: Nevermind, tried it some more and I was sweeping too early. But we must be getting different damage numbers, the combo SKD posted: 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 2B jC j214B 5D I'm getting 2981. Dust, D, 2B, 5B, 5C, TK B Dive, 2B, 2C, Sweep I'm getting 2962. Edited September 13, 2012 by VR-Raiden
skd Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Yeah, same results. Im never able to break the damage on the route i posted with that route. In fact, when testing damage i specifically tested it against that route no matter how you maximize damage, the IAD route always wins. theres one case where that TK j214B route is optimal, but thats for max meterless damage. Anything into oki, IAD slightttttly wins. For reference the max meterless damage is 5B 2B 5C j214B 2B 5C j214A 5AAA which is 15 more damage than the iad one, lol. IAD one dooooooes have more meter gain (1.5~ sp, lol) if you really want sweep oki, do 5B 5C IAD jBB j214A 5B 2C 44 2AB, 2995 but getting ground oki is a bitchhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ending with 5B jC j214B also does 2995. Edited September 13, 2012 by not_lunaris
Blossomforth Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Ah shit, maybe I read the numbers wrong if that's the case :o Meow.
darkpath Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 For reference the max meterless damage is 5B 2B 5C j214B 2B 5C j214A 5AAA which is 15 more damage than the iad one, lol. IAD one dooooooes have more meter gain (1.5~ sp, lol). Didn't know about the IAD one I guess I'll use it more often for 1.5 more sp lol
Blossomforth Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 For the iad aoa combos involving 5C, iad, j.bb, j.214a, 5B... how do you get the 5B after 214a? Having a hard time getting it for some reason. Can get 2B no problem. Meow.
Tong Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Didn't have a chance to test them, but try delaying j.214A and j.BB abit
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