[P4A] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

[Jyosua]

That is pretty cool. so when would you want to travel the farthest and when would you want to not travel the farthest?

Probably to fake someone out or if they jump towards you, hoping to crossover.

[Maho]

So I discovered that you can do j.B > j.C > 2DD on a crouching opponent, which will make them cross over, and you can redbeat a 5A if you run the other way and hit them. Not sure if this could lead to a good combo, but it's a good way to switch sides.

I saw the 2DD cross over trick in a recent Japanese video, the followup is pretty simple, with your jB starter you can continue with 5AA > 5B > 2AB > Bufala C > 5 > 2AB > Coup B for 3261.

That is pretty cool. so when would you want to travel the farthest and when would you want to not travel the farthest?

One example that come to mind is in a combo, you can do a CH throw some distance from the corner into EX Coup then 2A > 2B > Bufala C5 > 5 > 2AB > Coup B (2962dmg), keeping 6 pressed can make this work a little further from the corner.

[ElixirelDaath]

I've got some matchup problems------I'm having trouble fighting people who never crouch...well, in particular, against naoto. anytime i got a hit, the best i could do was 2a2a2a coupe, or auto combo or something. they never would crouch. So i went for throws and throw baits--w/ 4b and j c, but they would just mash some invincible move. I dn't know the input, but i thought it was a dp at first, but it isn't. naota can chain into gun afterwards making it safe, so baiting it out would just push me back to her zoning range. Any advice for approaches against things like this? and, i'm assuming that there really isn't any real damaging combo from a A starter when your opponent is standing correct? aside from CH into sweep rapid.

[icilby]

Couple quick questions regarding the system before I play at a release party:

Does her Coup Droit come out only on a [1/4]~6 or can it be executed with [1/4]~3 as well?

2AB can come out of 1AB I assume? Or are sweeps executed ONLY as 2AB?

I'm assuming most of her charge combos from sweeps are charged during the startup of the sweep, or do you have to do different charge buffers to land the standard 2AB xx B Coup Droit combos?

Does whiff A kara-cancel into AA, or does it just end at A? Same with A chain into 2C, does 2C come out or does it not whiff cancel?

And finally, what moves in general leave her at decent frame advantage?

[Jyosua]

As far as charging during sweeps and the sweep input, yes on both. I haven't tried using [1]3 for coup. I'll test that later today.

As far as whiff canceling, I want to say no on both, but I can't remember. I'll verify later.

Coup A is safe, but not advantageous. You can often get a grab reset, but trying to poke with A after it is asking for a counterhit. I haven't yet gone through and tested frame advantages, but I'll get around to that soon.

[spineshark]

Does her Coup Droit come out only on a [1/4]~6 or can it be executed with [1/4]~3 as well?

[1]~3 works.

2AB can come out of 1AB I assume? Or are sweeps executed ONLY as 2AB?

1/3 both work and as far as I can tell don't move her differently (unlike 4/5/6AB (lol) and 4/5/6B).

I'm assuming most of her charge combos from sweeps are charged during the startup of the sweep, or do you have to do different charge buffers to land the standard 2AB xx B Coup Droit combos?

Nope, you can 6B 1AB~3B if necessary (just make sure you start charging after you press B instead of once it hits, but that's charging 101 obviously). Sometimes (like if you get a throw really close to the corner) you can 4A 4AA 4B 1AB~6B but the charge times are shorter than you're probably expecting so it's not that important.

Does whiff A kara-cancel into AA, or does it just end at A? Same with A chain into 2C, does 2C come out or does it not whiff cancel?

And finally, what moves in general leave her at decent frame advantage?

I know I'm bad at testing stuff like this so maybe I just fail, but I haven't been able to whiff cancel anything. Which leads into the last bit...again, maybe I just don't get it, but it seems really hard for most to punish Coups if even possible, even with IB, especially coupB if you place yourself further away on purpose. Obviously that's different against characters with really fast command grabs, but I think mostly you're going to get blown up if you space wrong and whiff moves (particularly anything that freezes), not from finishing blockstrings with sensible moves.

[DC]

It's hard to punish coup because of the different times and distances it hits. You could hit on the first active frame near an opponent or the last active frame if it was started from far away, or somewhere in between. AFAIK characters with fast jabs (Aki, Yos, Chie) can punish on instant block regardless of when you hit. Could be wrong though, I mean we have no frame data. If anything I'd guess it's like +1 or +2. Really wish EX Coup was safe. :/

[Jyosua]

j.A starter BnBs:

j.A> 66 5A > 2B > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup 1857/14

[Crouch] j.A> 66 5A > 2B > 6B > 2AB > B Coup [2404/18]

Also, for 5A instead of what's posted:

5AAA> 6B> 5C(x6)> A Coup [1737/None/14]

I get slightly better damage out of:

5AAAA> 6B> 5C(x4)> A Coup [1745/14]

Also: 2A > 2B > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup [1592/13] but you have to be close range.

I also was trying this combo:

j.B > 66 5AA > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup and for some reason the damage varies between 1761 and 2161... anyone have any idea why? I'm at a loss for what could be changing it. The number of hits are the same either way.

Edit: I figured it out. Wow, so j.B does more damage if you a certain part on their body (800 vs. 400 if you wait until you'd hit their legs), but it's harder to combo after if you're higher up. I guess it's sort of a bonus for good execution.

I know I'm bad at testing stuff like this so maybe I just fail, but I haven't been able to whiff cancel anything. Which leads into the last bit...again, maybe I just don't get it, but it seems really hard for most to punish Coups if even possible, even with IB, especially coupB if you place yourself further away on purpose. Obviously that's different against characters with really fast command grabs, but I think mostly you're going to get blown up if you space wrong and whiff moves (particularly anything that freezes), not from finishing blockstrings with sensible moves.

Naw, I verified if you whiff, you can't cancel it. Also Kara cancelling is not the same as cancellable on whiff. Kara cancelling is cancelling in the first 4ish frames of the move.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Jyosua

[Lord Knight]

j.A starter BnBs:

j.A> 66 5A > 2B > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup 1857/14

[Crouch] j.A> 66 5A > 2B > 6B > 2AB > B Coup [2404/18]

Also, for 5A instead of what's posted:

5AAA> 6B> 5C(x6)> A Coup [1737/None/14]

I get slightly better damage out of:

5AAAA> 6B> 5C(x4)> A Coup [1745/14]

Also: 2A > 2B > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup [1592/13] but you have to be close range.

I also was trying this combo:

j.B > 66 5AA > 6B > 5C(x6) > A Coup and for some reason the damage varies between 1761 and 2161... anyone have any idea why? I'm at a loss for what could be changing it. The number of hits are the same either way.

Edit: I figured it out. Wow, so j.B does more damage if you a certain part on their body (800 vs. 400 if you wait until you'd hit their legs), but it's harder to combo after if you're higher up. I guess it's sort of a bonus for good execution.

incorrect

you probably dont realize it, but jB can be charged as well, so if it's doing more damage, it's probably because you are charging it

[Jyosua]

incorrect

you probably dont realize it, but jB can be charged as well, so if it's doing more damage, it's probably because you are charging it

Wow, that's really weird, but yeah that has to be it.

Edit: Actually... I'm not sure that's it. 520 is the max I get from charging it. I get 800 only if I hit Yu in a certain spot.

Edit2: It appears to be actually unrelated to where I hit Yu... but it's completely random. I'm only tapping the button, so it's not the charge. The only thing I can think of is maybe there's a glitch with the hitboxes and it calculates the overlapping ones hitting as twice the damage?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Jyosua

[Jourdal]

I'm actually doing my job atm, I'm editing the combo thread,and started match up threads. Going to open the combo thread when I'm done so people can go nuts....data thread is supposed to be axed soon so make sure to check the wiki

[Jyosua]

Sweet. Soon the quest for optimal combos begins!

[Jourdal]

Okay, all done, there's some "basic" combos, that weren't in the video that i'll add once my brothers get off the game. I saw some combos posted here too that i'll get around to adding when i check the last few pages. updating video thread too.

EDIT: Okay I've been fixing everything up, if anyone has any suggestions like an easier notation for combos, or if a combo is "useless"

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jourdal

[Beatrush]

Nice! I havent been checking dustloop in awhile so I am curious to compare the info from Mayonaka Midnight with Dustloop's

[DC]

Well I can tell you right now a lot of MM's information is just straight up wrong. Spent like an hour in training mode trying to figure out why the normal corner route didn't work off a throw.

[Jyosua]

Yeah I still haven't found any good corner throw combos. The best I've found is pretty much either throw > 5AA > 2B > sj.B or throw > 5AA > 2B > sj.A > j.C, neither of which are real attractive.

[NoctisLuna]

I still don't get what combo's she has midscreen. Most of the list is off counter hit or crouch. Plus how am i supposed to open someone up who is always blocking?

[Jyosua]

hit them with j.B when they are blocking low, or sweep>OMC when they are blocking high. You have to rely on pokes and grabs if you don't have any meter. Without meter, crouch confirm, or anti-air confirm Mitsuru seems to have trouble with combos. Alternatively, Zone from the distance using D moves.

Also, I can't seem to get the last sweep in this combo to work. Anyone else have any luck?

5DD> [4B]> [2B]> 2DD> [4B]> 2AB> C Bufula> [5B]> 2AB> B Coup [3574/None/33]

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jyosua

[DC]

Yeah I still haven't found any good corner throw combos. The best I've found is pretty much either throw > 5AA > 2B > sj.B or throw > 5AA > 2B > sj.A > j.C, neither of which are real attractive.

...what? There's a corner throw combo in the combo thread. I was saying the one on MM was wrong.

Throw 5aa 6b sweep b coup 2b c bufula 4/5b bufudyne

And I don't even think that's optimal but I haven't tried the 5b 5c route after throw yet.

Mitsuru has trouble with combos? What is this I don't even...

Edited August 8, 2012 by DC

[Jourdal]

@Jyousa...i wanna say that maybe that last 5B should be a 4.....i always use 4B>2AB>Coup as the ender, i'll check later.

Minori Mitsuru

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8XqL0Eiswg#t=4m15s

Satochi Mitsuru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WW9HDS9xQs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WW9HDS9xQs#t=6m42s

[Jyosua]

I'll try the 4. I tried 6 and it definitely refused to work.

[onemic]

Can anyone tell me how to properly utilize Mitsu's persona attacks? I keep trying to practice 5D combos in game and it seems like it never works as it always hits when the opponent is airborne making it uncomboable. The length of time that the persona is out also makes it very vulnerable to be hit causing me to almost forgo using persona attacks altogether in friendlies.

[Jyosua]

Nope, no matter what I tried I can't get 5DD> [4B]> [2B]> 2DD> [4B]> 2AB> C Bufula> [5B]> 2AB> B Coup [3574/None/33] to work. It could be display lag on this flatscreen in my hotel room, but I'll verify that on friday when I get back home to my Asus. Please do test it though. If you can get it to work, then that's probably it.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Jyosua

[Beatrush]

...what? There's a corner throw combo in the combo thread. I was saying the one on MM was wrong.

Throw 5aa 6b sweep b coup 2b c bufula 4/5b bufudyne

And I don't even think that's optimal but I haven't tried the 5b 5c route after throw yet.

Mitsuru has trouble with combos? What is this I don't even...

The combo thread is a mess atm. That is party my fault for not QA checking it more often

I'll take a look at that combo and make corrections to the combo thread for MM.

If there is any others that are wrong, let me know.

Also, I can't seem to get the last sweep in this combo to work. Anyone else have any luck?

5DD> [4B]> [2B]> 2DD> [4B]> 2AB> C Bufula> [5B]> 2AB> B Coup [3574/None/33]

if the C Bufula hits too low, you wont have enough charge on the 5B to make the sweep connect.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Beatrush

[Jyosua]

if the C Bufula hits too low, you wont have enough charge on the 5B to make the sweep connect.

Are you supposed to hit them while they're still in the air after C Bufula, or can you let them land at that point?