[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Sakaku]

In the case of Tager, 6C is a honorable mention, at least as far as corner oki goes. He can't do anything but block as long as he doesn't have 50 meter for MTW. 6C catches backdash, 360Z/720 attempts and sledge. And don't forget you can do a full combo off 6C + george hits, netting you about 3k into 5CC > 214B > 3C > 214A oki to repeat the process.

[Austin_QED]

Hey, new Rachel here.

My friends and I have picked up the game and they're playing "easier" characters such as Valk, Jin and Izayoi.

It feels like I'm getting RTSD'ed really hard.

What should I be focused more on, rods or bat/george?

I read the Rachel guide and it always told me to have a last wall, but it seems like they just airdash past the first wall before I have time to set up the last one?

Should I be more patient with 6a? Become a rod monster (wow, that was unintentional) or does this all come with time?

It seems like Ice car and Valk's shoulder are harder to punish now.

Also, I'm confused with shorthop, do I jump THEN do 2D, or does 2D supposed to just pop me in the air?

EDIT: OOHH okay, I'm supposed to put the wind down first, then jump to make it a short hop.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Austin_QED

[Tari]

It's definitely easiest to input the wind before jumping. It is possible to do it the other way around, but it's somewhat harder to time. If you input the wind first, though, watch out for super jumping accidentally.

The zoning comes with time, typically. Most players aren't used to way Rachel's lobelias are used for blocking off screen space, so it takes a while to get the hang of deciding how to use them.

If you can't decide on what to summon, the pumpkin is usually a good place to start. Having the pumpkin out gives you that 'last wall' immediately, before you start setting up the forward walls. Trying to set up the forward walls without your defense in place is often just asking the opponent to run at you willy-nilly and counterhit you out of a lobelia toss. When you get more used to the way Rachel's lobelias zone, you'll find that it is possible to block screen space and movement with lobelias and sword iris before you summon a pumpkin, but it's probably not the most intuitive style to start from.

6A is a pretty standard anti-air. It's very good, but it has the same caveats as most other 6As in the game. If you find yourself whiffing it because they're double jumping or because you're using it too early, it may be beneficial to delay using it. If they're really high up in the air, Rachel actually has a fairly good set of air-to-air normals with j.B (horizontal space) and j.C (vertical space), so you can try using those, as well.

Rachel is fairly bad at dealing with RTSD. If she gets cornered, her defensive options are counter-assault and cat chair, neither of which are particularly great options.

Valk has a very good pressure game that often just turns into his opponent blocking and waiting until his wolf meter runs out, unfortunately. You can try chicken blocking (jumping and holding barrier), but it's not really a great option, and your barrier will run out fairly fast if you do it often. His mixup, fortunately, has become noticeably worse in this game in wolf form, so if you can block correctly for a little while (or barrier + IB and shove him out for a little space), you can probably jump out or 2A/5B his reapproach.

Jin has his usual annoying pressure game. The ice cars remain very punishable, so block them standing (they're overheads in this game) and then just 5B or 5A him for the free hit. If he's jumping a lot for his overheads, you can 6A him out of it, especially in the corner. If he's doing the cross-up jumps midscreen, it's a bit harder to 6A, but those tend to also leave larger gaps for you to move around or punish him in.

Izayoi is somewhat harder to explain how to deal with. If you let her get her stocks and start her GA mode RTSD game, you're probably going to have a bit of trouble. The main trick in this matchup is to hit her with something and then corner carry and knock her down. Izayoi has literally no reversals. None. Her wakeup super is considered her only reversal, but most characters, Rachel included (I think, haven't tested it), can get around it with correct oki setups. Always do frog oki on her in the corner if possible. If you can't do frog oki when she has 50 meter, then summon a pumpkin and do a forward jump, because it will likely put you above and behind her wakeup super if she uses it, allowing you to just hit her in the face with a falling normal before she can teleport cancel the super. Try to avoid blocking or getting hit by her projectiles when she's in normal mode. You can destroy them with pumpkin or 5B if you want to stay on the ground, or you can just jump over them. Once you have pressure going, Izayoi is pretty much dead. It literally just comes down to the Izayoi player guessing right or wrong a few times after that, and even if they guess right, it's hard for them to make anything happen, because rods and the pumpkin will probably still be on screen.

Oh. If the Izayoi player does a raw teleport, just mash some normals that aren't 5A. A pretty standard trick is to do a suicidal teleport and follow it with her 623C. It's terrible as a trick, because it loses to mashed moves, so just hit her in the face with 2A or something. If you block it, she can teleport cancel it to safety or to try the gimmick again, so it's best to just hit her.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Tari

[Errol]

6A is a pretty standard anti-air. It's very good, but it has the same caveats as most other 6As in the game. If you find yourself whiffing it because they're double jumping or because you're using it too early, it may be beneficial to delay using it. If they're really high up in the air, Rachel actually has a fairly good set of air-to-air normals with j.B (horizontal space) and j.C (vertical space), so you can try using those, as well.

Jin has his usual annoying pressure game. The ice cars remain very punishable, so block them standing (they're overheads in this game) and then just 5B or 5A him for the free hit. If he's jumping a lot for his overheads, you can 6A him out of it, especially in the corner. If he's doing the cross-up jumps midscreen, it's a bit harder to 6A, but those tend to also leave larger gaps for you to move around or punish him in.

Those ice cars actually aren't overheads, thank god, I was wondering if I'd have to deal with RC 50/50 mixup.

With regards to the anti air, 6a is pretty amazing but playing Rachel I'm seeing some of the flaws it has. it really doesn't have much horizontal range. combined with a generally slow run speed, it's very hard, in my experience, to _run in_ and anti-air someone. This is a typical part of my game with Tsubaki or Makoto... I thought maybe I'd try winding to get in faster, but since wind moves the enemy pretty strongly when they're in the air, it has proven fruitless.

but I do find that a lot of the time, even if the opponent double jumps, you can just mash 6a again, it recovers so fast, and hits so high, and goes invuln reasonably fast. i.e. in order for them to not get hit by the first 6a they have to be pretty high in the air, so if you do whiff a 6a it's going to be longer before they're falling on you than if other characters whiff their antiair. not 100%, of course.

[Errol]

and a heads up, N-O is in part 3 of online godsgarden from the video thread.

[Tari]

Those ice cars actually aren't overheads, thank god, I was wondering if I'd have to deal with RC 50/50 mixup.

With regards to the anti air, 6a is pretty amazing but playing Rachel I'm seeing some of the flaws it has. it really doesn't have much horizontal range. combined with a generally slow run speed, it's very hard, in my experience, to _run in_ and anti-air someone. This is a typical part of my game with Tsubaki or Makoto... I thought maybe I'd try winding to get in faster, but since wind moves the enemy pretty strongly when they're in the air, it has proven fruitless.

but I do find that a lot of the time, even if the opponent double jumps, you can just mash 6a again, it recovers so fast, and hits so high, and goes invuln reasonably fast. i.e. in order for them to not get hit by the first 6a they have to be pretty high in the air, so if you do whiff a 6a it's going to be longer before they're falling on you than if other characters whiff their antiair. not 100%, of course.

I stand corrected. Someone had told me his ice cars were all overhead in this game, and I hadn't played any Jins to find out if they really were or not. Well... unless you count unlimited Jin, where they're both lows and highs.

Thanks for the catch.

[Austin_QED]

It seems like I'm getting hit low by Ice car (the yellow exclamation mark).

Also it seems like Valk can go for a mixup after shoulder?

He can either jab for more pressure or go for throw.

[TD]

ib 5a/5b that shit

works against most stuff afterward. jab, throw, wolf dash, loses to rapid cancel, maybe his 6a, maybe a wolf dash ither than 6

[Tari]

It seems like I'm getting hit low by Ice car (the yellow exclamation mark).

Also it seems like Valk can go for a mixup after shoulder?

He can either jab for more pressure or go for throw.

Yup, the cars are low, the follow-ups are mid.

[swordiris]

I was decent at CS2 and Extend (600 PSR) but suck at CP.

I'm so discouraged. I'm 1-9 on ranked and my muscle memory keeps trying to make me do extend combos. How do I remedy this?

[TD]

you keep playing.

[swordiris]

That is true TD. I'll figure it out eventually. I can only win if I first lose.

[Diveman]

how do you do that confirm Rachel players do now? the one where they do an air to air into j.C then they do something with j.2D into j.C and land for a 5b 6a confirm, I can't figure it out.

[Errol]

2d both j.Cs

[Diveman]

2d both j.Cs

thanks

[Rele]

I'm 1-9 on ranked and my muscle memory keeps trying to make me do extend combos. How do I remedy this?

Spend one hour in Pmode?

[kirbster]

how do you do that confirm Rachel players do now? the one where they do an air to air into j.C then they do something with j.2D into j.C and land for a 5b 6a confirm, I can't figure it out.

Don't use two wind stocks, you have to do (after like a CH 6a) 5b > j.[c] > j.c > j.2d > land dash 6a > 4b etc.

The brackets mean that you gotta hold the first j.c to float just enough so that you can do a second j.c without jump cancelling. Timing is a bit tricky but practice makes perfect.

[TD]

sometimes two 2d's is necessary. in the case he mentioned, rachel would be doing jb and jc mostly as air to airs. j[c] route doesn't work often here, though there are situations where she could still use only one wind, and she can still do j[c] jc2d once she juggles them close enough to the ground.

[kirbster]

Well yeah, that's why I specified a CH 6a situation. Two different things!

[TD]

ok. l thought you were talking about the same tbh when you said "dont use two wind stocks" which l interpreted as "dont use two wind stocks in an air to air situation"

[kirbster]

Hahaha my bad, I just didn't read his post properly, in air to air situations you definitely need 2 winds >.<

[ShadowClawBKR]

I really can't wait to get my hands on Chrono Phantasma. It's a lot faster, so I can use her overheads a lot easier now, and with her new tool, it'll be easier to lock people down. I don't see people using j2C combos off of George in this game though. Is there any reason why?

[TD]

no need. she gets a decent amount of damage and meter from using the ground route, and it has the best wind regen. j2c route is awkward now, needs wind, doesn't offer much in the way of wind regen, and damage/meter is only a small increase. also doesn't give an optimal oki situation (being 5cc, 3c, and in some cases 236a), which the former does. it's rather obsolete, but still finds it's way into few situations.

[Tari]

Not sure which j.2C combos you're talking about, so it's hard to comment. In general, though, I think TD covered pretty much everything. There are some cases where j.2C routes also extend the amount of time a combo takes, which is pretty detrimental in this game.

I'm pretty sad about the change to 4B. It was by far my favourite move. People just never knew what to do when I used it.

[kirbster]

Not sure which j.2C combos you're talking about, so it's hard to comment. In general, though, I think TD covered pretty much everything. There are some cases where j.2C routes also extend the amount of time a combo takes, which is pretty detrimental in this game.

I'm pretty sad about the change to 4B. It was by far my favourite move. People just never knew what to do when I used it.

But 4b is faster now lol, so you can hit more people with it!