[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Anne]

Like, I said, idk if it actually is easier but it helped me a ton *shrug* it definitely keeps you closer though.

On another note, what do I do to get Azrael to respect, um, anything? I was playing with one tonight and he can just reaction DP like everything, including frog oki.

[Stoneroth]

I was messing around with both the 5D and 6A timing but it didn't seem to help me in terms of exexution. As soon as I went back to my normal way of doing things I got it 5 times in a row. I figured it wasn't for me. :P I'll try delaying the 6A again though.

My friend is playing Azrael atm and I'm finding it challenging. A growlered frog gives you free mixup at least, he can probably just growler you out of your mixup though :/. If you hit him with a lobelia just before he tries to growler george, george will hit him out at the end, but then he still gets projectiles...

There's a couple of really good sets of N-O vs Dogura that I need to rewatch, probably check them out.

[Tari]

Finally got home and picked up my copy of CP. It came with three pins, two of which are Platinum and Rachel. Quite pleased.

Now to try to learn to play Rachel and Platinum in this game... once I stop being obsessed with trying Izayoi out. /cough

[kirbster]

Against Azrael, just don't use the frog except in combos. On oki (especially in the corner) always back up a bit and do 2a > 6b. At the right distance growler will whiff and you'll get a nice CH fork into combo.

In neutral, really abuse backdash 236a, it beats most of his approaches including Gustaf (his + on block hell's fang). I still have trouble against him when he gets me in the corner but that's just inexperience. Also be wary of his anti air 2c which is quite good.

[gamester]

Why not set up a Vs Azrael thread in Match Ups and put this information down there. It could get lost in here as this thread can be quite busy and information easily lost at times. Well I find but that might just be me xD

(On another note. I hope my copy arrives today. Hope... Really hope)

[Sakaku]

Just dropping by to say I'm not dead. I will take care of zhe combo thread once week end kicks in. That being said, I'm slowly but surely starting to love the new Rachel.

Since I can't check myself nor search the Forums (tapatalk) I'll probably be asking a question which has already been answered, but how good is B lotus for keepaway? And is A lotus worth using at all?

[Zoular]

Could someone explain how you get 2C to different levels and what, other than doing it from high altitude, causes the giant ground bounce? I see you guys talking about using it but it doesn't seem practical to me (which I take as an indication that I'm missing something).

I'm assuming you meant j.2C

Momentum plays a part in it too. Try attempting

5B >5CD > 3C > 8D > 5B > j.C2D > dj.2C(lvl2) > 236B > j.C > dj.C > Iris > BBL

You will want to get used to this, however if you're starting out, add j.B

5B >5CD > 3C > 8D > 5B > j.B > j.C2D......

Try that to get an idea how the momentum works for the lvl2, hope this helps

[TD]

Just dropping by to say I'm not dead. I will take care of zhe combo thread once week end kicks in. That being said, I'm slowly but surely starting to love the new Rachel.

Since I can't check myself nor search the Forums (tapatalk) I'll probably be asking a question which has already been answered, but how good is B lotus for keepaway? And is A lotus worth using at all?

It's very good of you know how to use it. So many good points with arguably two flaws (that being recovery and the fact that it uses all your poles, the latter not being that terrible). It does make a person want to make it rain with their wind... Aka spend all of it immediately lol. Sometimes, though, it is worth it.

[Spalding007]

Just dropping by to say I'm not dead. I will take care of zhe combo thread once week end kicks in. That being said, I'm slowly but surely starting to love the new Rachel.

Since I can't check myself nor search the Forums (tapatalk) I'll probably be asking a question which has already been answered, but how good is B lotus for keepaway? And is A lotus worth using at all?

A lotus can screw up your timing doing lobelia loop combos, not sure if you can get some good mid screen combos with them but it's possible. 3C 8D brings people up pretty high, idk, be creative. B lotus is good with zoning since 5D makes projectiles fly faster. Also you can wind in angles you normally can't. B with A lotus zoning can keep people back. Should be great ways to utilize them that I'm not aware of yet.

Welcome back btw. Your posts were super useful, learned a lot from them. Hopefully you can figure out Rachel's challenge 30. I'm one lobelia short from finishing it.

[gli]

There was a solution posted earlier in this thread.

Came up with a solution to Trial 30 if anyone was curious. Its not too difficult either. Going to put (w) for the lobelias that whiff since you only have to cast the lobelia not actually hit with it and you have to whiff them due to SMP.

j.2C (lvl3) > 236A(w) > 236B > j.C > j.236A2D > 5B > j.C > j.236A2D > 5B > j.C > j.236A2D > 5B > 6A > 4B > Overdrive > dash > 6A > BBL > 236A(w) > 236A(w)8D > BBL > 236A > 236A

[Spalding007]

Ah. Darn. Just figured out a different way of doing it without OD, but is harder to pull off than that. Apparently I suck at searching. Props to whoever figured it out first.

[Juraya]

Hey guys, just another question.

I´ve been sitting in practice and tried: 5bd 6a j.c 2d 5b 6a 236a 3c 5cc to have at least something while I struggle with the microdash :S

I realized it works on most of the cast but Kagura. Is it impossible due to hitbox or is the timing different?

And is any other character known where this also does not work? If not, I might test it myself later, just wanted to ask on the side.

Edit:

Izayoi seems fine, it was a question of timing. Kagura still problematic :O

Edited October 30, 2013 by Juraya

[skiller41]

I'm assuming you meant j.2C

Momentum plays a part in it too. Try attempting

5B >5CD > 3C > 8D > 5B > j.C2D > dj.2C(lvl2) > 236B > j.C > dj.C > Iris > BBL

You will want to get used to this, however if you're starting out, add j.B

5B >5CD > 3C > 8D > 5B > j.B > j.C2D......

Try that to get an idea how the momentum works for the lvl2, hope this helps

This is cool and I can see where this is applicable, but I still don't understand why j.2c becomes level 2 vs. level 3 and what the differences are. On the other hand I now know where you have to hit to get the bounce. Also I'm not sure if you are saying "momentum" as an illustration or that it is actually a mechanic of 2C (I am both new to Rachel and this game).

[Anne]

At level 2 it becomes a counterhit which causes the groundbounce, and it level 3 it becomes a Fatal Counter which causes a lot of things to happen. It all depends on the momentum Rachel has when 2C hits, that's what changes the level. Level 2 is common enough after j.C2D double jump 2C, the wind gives you the momentum to hit level 2.

[Tari]

As AnneIFrank said, the level of j.2C that you get is based on how fast Rachel is falling at the moment she hits the opponent. It's pretty easy to get the level 2 and level 3 j.2Cs when you use wind, but the level 3 version is notably not as useful in this version of the game as it was in previous installments (where it was a staple part of Rachel's BBL combos).

[skiller41]

At level 2 it becomes a counterhit which causes the groundbounce, and it level 3 it becomes a Fatal Counter which causes a lot of things to happen. It all depends on the momentum Rachel has when 2C hits, that's what changes the level. Level 2 is common enough after j.C2D double jump 2C, the wind gives you the momentum to hit level 2.

Ah cool that's exactly what I wanted to know :D thank you

[TD]

uploading a player match shortly.

not sure how well the foe will be yet considering its week 1... will put in the cp video thread

[Tari]

Hey guys, just another question.

I´ve been sitting in practice and tried: 5bd 6a j.c 2d 5b 6a 236a 3c 5cc to have at least something while I struggle with the microdash :S

I realized it works on most of the cast but Kagura. Is it impossible due to hitbox or is the timing different?

And is any other character known where this also does not work? If not, I might test it myself later, just wanted to ask on the side.

Edit:

Izayoi seems fine, it was a question of timing. Kagura still problematic :O

I can't test at the moment, and I don't know where your combo is dropping, so here's a list the characters you're most likely to run into issues with in terms of aerial/falling hitboxes (assuming you're whiffing moves):

Kagura

Platinum

Hakumen

Mu/Noel/Nu

Makoto (I think this is changed, though?)

I might be leaving one or two characters out, but those are what I can recall off the top of my head. I'm not sure if they've fixed any of the hitboxes on those characters since CSE, but Platinum definitely still has an odd falling hitbox, Hakumen almost definitely still has his, and Kagura is confirmed to have a weird one as well.

[GaoGaoGao]

I learned that hitting D before the 5B, 6A makes it a bit easier. So the input would be 5DB, 6A. Seems like you end up closer.

Also, how the heck do you get people to sit down? Hold up just seems extremely good in this game. I gotta learn meaty timings I guess.

[Rhapsody]

I learned that hitting D before the 5B, 6A makes it a bit easier. So the input would be 5DB, 6A. Seems like you end up closer.

Also, how the heck do you get people to sit down? Hold up just seems extremely good in this game. I gotta learn meaty timings I guess.

As Rachel, Pumpkin or frog should be doing that for you in corner as oki. If you're talking about standard corner pressure, there's a variety of creative ways that'll give them a difficult time (wind, lobelia, and so forth).

[Rele]

I haven't really watched a lot of BBCP matches so I don't know the current metagame, but from the few I watched it seemed to me that noone seems to use Guard Crushes outside of combos. I played some casuals yesterday and it occured to me that guardcrush might actually be really good for Rachel.

Out of a standard knockdown with 3C and frog, I did meaty 5b into GC. To me it seems the opponent has the following options:

1) Reversal the 5b (not a lot of difference from standard oki then)

2) Barrier (this will take half of their barrier gauge, and you still get a mixup after the frog hit). If they do this twice, they will be in danger mode where they'll take a lot more damage and cannot airblock. I don't think I have to explain why this would be really beneficial to Rachel.

3) Normal block (obviously, they'll get hit and you can easily confirm into a combo from the frog)

4) Deadangle the 5b (this still works in your favor, since they'll exchange 50 tension for 25)

What do you guys think?

[Zoular]

I've used it to catch a few backdashers on their wake up, it also helps with mid screen Connie, I agree that it is underused.

[Tari]

@Rele:

While I agree that CT can be a useful tool, I figure I should point out that your setup has a pretty large gap between the 5B and the CT. Opponents with reversal moves will probably just DP there on reaction to the CT flash/startup. Characters without a DP have a harder time dealing with it, as George's activation shrinks the gap that players have to react in.

I think the main reasons you don't see CT in mixup, other than its very slow startup, are that Rachel has significantly better mixup options, using CT to start a combo means you won't generate any meter for a set duration, and using CT multiple times will cause you to just not have as much meter for combo damage as you otherwise would have.

I'm not saying it's bad, though. It's just that it's a pretty expensive option that comes with some inherent danger. Pretty hilarious if you can drain an opponents barrier gauge in two mixups, haha.

-----

On a completely unrelated note, did we get Rachel birthday art from ASW this year?

[gamester]

Not sure about Rachel artwork from Arc for her birthday. Saw a fair bit of drawings on twitter though.

I'm just trying to get used to new combo routes and stuff in the game. I haven't really got a training plan in place and I should really as I'm all over the shop xD

[Tari]

Not sure about Rachel artwork from Arc for her birthday. Saw a fair bit of drawings on twitter though.

I'm just trying to get used to new combo routes and stuff in the game. I haven't really got a training plan in place and I should really as I'm all over the shop xD

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat, haha. My Rachel play is pretty terrible at the moment. I think my Izayoi is actually more executionally effective at the moment, which isn't saying much, since my Izayoi sucks.

Haven't really put any time into Rachel or Platinum in this game, yet.