[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Venussail91]

They all still work though, right? We don't have to adjust our combos at all?

[sparkaura]

proration is definitely nerfed. shorter combos seems to have been false reports.

I was under the assumption that higher proration=higher damge. Thats what the list says so wouldn't it be a damge buff for us? Correct me if I am wrong Im trying to get a grasp on this information.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

if anything proration would only change damage, not combo time. also, increased proration means higher damage afaik.

Oh, okay I see. So, it'll only affect damage. That's good to hear. Thanks for clearing that up guys.

[Venussail91]

So many contradicting statements, so confusing @_@

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Well in terms of damage going up or down, I think it's only natural that it's confusing because you can interpret the statement different ways. You can interpret "Increased P1" to mean they increased the effects of damage scaling, which means damage went down, or you can interpret "Increased P1" to mean they increased the numerical value, which means damage went up. We'll find out which way the damage went when people get some more hands-on time with the patch. Personally, I think it went down though.

[Errol]

p1 increased is pretty unambiguous.

it was just a slight mistranslation. p1 actually decreased.

[Khaoz77]

I have a question. I'm a little new to the game, but thankfully I do have a few friends who play the game with me at a good level.

So when pressuring with Rachel, should I go for throw setups and disregard wind more often? I am used to blowing wind whenever I get my opponent to the corner with 3C and 4B mixup. In training mode I try to incorporate throws into the mix but I do have that fear that I am gonna get jabbed out of it or I have to fight back if my opponent ends up bursting out of my pressure. What would you guys recommend?

[TD]

Do j2da/2b mixup. It should be everyone's core strategy when pressuring as rachel.

I could make a semi long post about it, or i could go the simple route and just tell you to watch n otoko's rachel. Or mine, if you prefer. Among others. You'll see the same strategy with variation with most good Rachel's out there.

I also wrote a guide on pressuring with her, though it's old 99% of it still applies in cp. it can be found right on this subforum.

[Soniti]

N-O's latest tweets basically say that he feels Rachel became a bit weaker but will still be among the top group of characters.

[samthegreat]

What became weaker though? I heard she was the same, most of her threats got nerfed too which is great.

[Errol]

N-O's latest tweets basically say that he feels Rachel became a bit weaker but will still be among the top group of characters.

you're reading it wrong.

[samthegreat]

I read a couple of his tweets and he didn't seem to talk abouther being weaker, so I assumed it was from tweets I overlooked.

[Soniti]

you're reading it wrong.

Whoops you are totally right, missed a very important "zenzen" :D

[Wild Candy]

Kind've a newbie questions, but what are some of must know combos you must know with Rachel?

Right now, my combos consist of

5B >5CD > 3C > 8D > 6A > 4B > 5CC

5B > 5CD > 6C > J.C > 5B > 5C/3C

Along with the basic Corner BnB with Oki or Baden Baden Lily Enders.

[TD]

You have to know how to do a windless and a winded combo from each of her starter attacks: including normals, pumpkin hits, frog hits, lobelia/iris hits

As well as the starter value of each attack. Knowledge is priority because rachel needs the added time n starters give to gain more wind and better positioning.

Basically 2a, 5a, ja, pumpkin, td, maybe bbl? will give you a short combo starter, so using them first will require a short combo into 5cc or 3c. Literally everything else can be confirmed into something decent given wind and the route that needs to be taken.

Also being mindful of smp moves being 236a, 3c, 5cc, 4b. You'll need to change your combo on the fly sometimes. Generally everything minus 5cc can still be used twice early in the combo. That will end the combo but you'll still get a knockdown. In longer combos ending in one of the 3 will grant the foe ability to tech in the air. You won't get oki but it's a very interesting situation as you can do risky resets here. 5cc twice will always tech in the air no matter what.

And combo routes. From 5b(b):

Standing

5cd 3c

Jb3d jc

5d 6a micro dash 5b

5d 6a 4b dash

With pumpkin standing

any normal 5d dash 5b 6a micro dash 5b (before wind ends)

Any normal 5/6d dash 5b 5cc

5c iris

6cd (8d)

Crouching

Immediate 3c with appropriate wind if you sense you'll be out of range for 5cd

Pumpkin routes work here

Iris will connect from 5b if 5c too far on crouching

Launchers are iris, frog, 5d 6a, 4b, 3c, both supers you'll need to transition into an air combo and do as much damage while juggling them downward for oki.

Very important to learn 5d 6a dash 5b IMO but 4b can substitute 5b for easier combos.

Theres some missing routes here, I believe the rest are covered in the video but just in case you should check the combo thread.

...

Better to watch the 10 minute rachel tutorial and practice the combos you feel comfortable with, and then the ones you don't know or can't do well yet. Here http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9HiW8v2qTgU

Edited February 17, 2014 by TD

[Diveman]

How would you recommend it to start learning her neutral? sometimes I have no idea what to do and start summoning stuff but then they are already dashing and on my face, or sometimes I want to attack but I straight up lose in that situation. I feel like she has so much stuff to do on neutral that is hard to pick the right one mostly due to lack of exp

[TD]

there you go you have to keep playing. even with all her tools the idea is the same as any other fighter. offense which relates to approaching, maintaining pressure, using tools quickly and efficiently; zoning, keeping people where you want them, stalling for time, using pokes at correct spacings, knowing what and when to summon and using each summon to its best ability per wind; and defense. how to keep people off you, blocking well and using all defensive mechanics available. lord knows she needs them.

you absolutely must know how to use wind frame by frame to use her effectively, to answer your question.

there are several guides on this concept. you can read those and there's N-O to look at for inspiration or xcopy from, whichever you prefer.

[gli]

Well, mostly I keep these points in mind when trying to play neutral as Rachel. These points are not Rachel specific per se, more of a general knowledge base I have built up over the years of playing fighting games. In addition to TD's points... also consider:

In general

• There are no hard and fast rules. The primary way to improve neutral game is to actively study videos/replays and reflect on your own play.
  
• I think this point is often overlooked and not really mentioned a lot but... try to develop a second-nature for glancing at the HUD to quickly ascertain life totals, how much meter you and your opponent has, check wind gauge, check the other person's specific drive information (i.e Spark Bolt meter, How many nails Bang has, etc.), does your opponent have a burst to use? How much time is left in the match (as Rachel, if you have the life lead and some wind... you can easily run away and win by time over).
  
  If you continually study your opponent's actions in relation to the HUD information, you will quickly find that a lot of things average players fall for is due to a lack of information. If you have ever played RTS games such as Starcraft, you can think of glancing at the HUD like looking at the mini-map in an RTS. It's your rear-view mirror!
  
  Some quick examples:
  - Hazama is sitting on 50 meter. Prior to this, your opponent never used his 6A overhead. Suddenly, he is fishing for 6A once he gets closer to 50 meter. Obviously he wants to 6A > Houtenjin. Without knowing this information you can easily fall for this time and time again. If you are aware of his meter you can more easily anticipate these kinds of things. Remember, reacting to overheads or hi-lows differs depending on if you are anticipating the attack versus going in blind without any prior information / tells / etc.
  
  - Tager Spark Bolt. Just as an exercise, try using Tager and just sit on a fully charged Spark Bolt. Just being at full-screen can make your opponent jump if they are aware of your Spark Bolt meter. Of course, since we are now at BBCP, you can also read their jump and use the angled Spark Bolt instead. Use this information to plan a counter.
  
  
  Rachel specific
  

  • It is generally more advantageous to stay grounded as Rachel. Remember, you can only regenerate wind if you are grounded.
    
  • If you have to jump, make sure you know the exact reason.
    
  • Trying to summon in neutral is always a gamble. Pay attention to what match-up you are playing. Through experience you will learn when and where the safer spots are.
    
  • Note that Rachel 5B and 2B have projectile property. This affects certain match-ups more than others (notably Tager).
    

  Just a place to start from. Good luck.

Edited February 21, 2014 by glirandly

[Random Naoto]

you're reading it wrong.

What did it actually say? The 2C untechable increase seems like a buff, and the lotus changes seem more like compromises than straight up nerfs. Are the extra active frames not worth the extra startup?

[kirbster]

This guy must simply be a Rachel player

[RurouniLoneWolf]

lol, can't believe I missed that pic until now. Genious.

Anywho, here are the Rachel changes for BBCP 1.1 with more detail.

Rachel:

- Backdash's duration increased from 23 to 25 frames. Ergo, she is considered airborne from 1st to 25th frame now. The distance traveled is also increased.

- Negative Penalty Resistance decreased from 7 to 4.

- 2C doesn't blow the enemy away as high, untech time increased from 30 to 42 frames.

- George XIII's SFX now disappear along with the hitbox.

- Impish Gipsophilia now moves once the hitbox is active. Can be triggered up to 4 times.

- Barrel Lotus and Beelze Lotus have their start-up increased from 39 to 44 frames. Duration is increased from 54 to 60 frames. The projectiles are now slower. The attack level is increased from 0 to 2. P1 proration decreased from 100% to 70%, P2 proration increased from 70% to 92%. Other attack level changes apply.

Original Famitsu Source

Translation Source

[Diveman]

- Impish Gipsophilia now moves once the hitbox is active.

what does this mean? is it like, pumking now moves a bit when winded??

[TD]

It has a 5f startup once it is summoned and is winded. It likely means that those 5f are now gone. It will hit immediately but will probably travel less distance. This will probably make the pumpkin really good for defensive presence and oki, but will not be able to cover max distances as effectively. It's a buff and a nerf.

[Errol]

I think the 5f startup is still there, the pumpkin just doesn't move until 5f after button presses instead of instantly. same conclusion though.

[gamester]

I must apologise in advance for my questions but I'm clueless to 9/10 of what is being stated. I'm just really bad at understanding what's, what and which is which.

Wouldn't the Lotus effects increase pumpkin distance?

I'm not understanding clearly tbh but would we still wind pumpkin out before it's fully summoned?

Also. I'm really having no clue but Negative Penalty resistance... I assume we get negative penalty apply quicker now?

Sorry again.

Edited February 26, 2014 by gamester