[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Diveman]

What's the best combo to do after midscreen frog using wing? I've been messing around her 2 wind j.C confirm, and you can go into that route for 2797 with 2 winds and you get 1 and a half back at the end, it is something like:

[Frog] 6a 5b j.b j.c 2d jump j.c 2d (land) 6a 4b dash 5b 6a 236a dash 3c xx iris dash 5c (2)

[ShadowClawBKR]

Are the lobelia bats any good for pressure in the corner and midscreen? It seems a bit gimmicky.

[Venussail91]

Very, provided you're using the B version. Not only will your zoning techniques auto target and travel farther, but your opponent's air dash distance will be cut about in half, maybe more. The opponent will either eat hits or be more cautious with the approach than usual, allowing for free setups. Either way, it's win/win.

[Tari]

Very, provided you're using the B version. Not only will your zoning techniques auto target and travel farther, but your opponent's air dash distance will be cut about in half, maybe more. The opponent will either eat hits or be more cautious with the approach than usual, allowing for free setups. Either way, it's win/win.

If I recall correclty, A-lotus cuts air dash distance, not B-lotus. B-lotus only causes 5D to home in on the opponent. A-lotus increases (doubles?) the effect of wind on the opponent.

[Celerity]

If I recall correclty, A-lotus cuts air dash distance, not B-lotus. B-lotus only causes 5D to home in on the opponent. A-lotus increases (doubles?) the effect of wind on the opponent.

That's true, although if you're doing 5D under B Lotus, the wind will be stronger than normal. It'll tilt upwards slightly if they're airdashing, so I don't think it'll cut down on their airdash *that* much more than a normal 5D.

[Graymalkyn]

Are the lobelia bats any good for pressure in the corner and midscreen? It seems a bit gimmicky.

While the bats don't -exactly- affect Rachel's ability to pressure the opponent they do give us very strong movement options that will allow you to zoom in the opponents face rather suddenly. For example, with a B lotus attached 5d winded air-dashes have a slight homing property and are VERY fast and 5d winded 3c's become a full screen reaching low. Another thing I've noticed is how easily you can confirm ch 2c with a 2d once you have A lotus attached. So not only can you use 2c to call out reversals but you can even net a 5k combo if you've got 100 meter and od. Silly I know. But still nice to know we could possibly get 5k of cat chair again.

[Errol]

no tweet:

kokonoe>>>>valk>>rachel>>mid tier>>low tier

he's been going on pretty good about kokonoe for a bit now.

[TD]

does that mean he doesn't regard the other top tiers such as litch and tao, as top as people assume? or just disregarding them for the sake of proving his point?

[Errol]

does that mean he doesn't regard the other top tiers such as litch and tao, as top as people assume? or just disregarding them for the sake of proving his point?

It's just a scale. I'm sure he does but for whatever reason used valk there. it might mean he thinks valk is basically at the top, or coincidence, etc. you know. not really for the sake of proving a point.. just basically giving the image that the diff between kokonoe and valk (/ litchi/tao) is a lot bigger than the diff between mid tier and low tier?

it's barely been a year..er a month, ima go tell NO he's stupid for prematurely placing valk.. er kokonoe that high

Edited November 27, 2013 by Errol

[Errol]

So the rest of it. He says this will be the last time he enters the online gods garden tournament. Two reasons are 1. netplay and 2. kokonoe, with the reason behind that being that if he loses he likely won't be able to blame himself. It's not even Rachel vs Kokonoe, but rather that she seems to destroy simply everyone in BB. He thinks Rachel is probably one of the more able to handle her but 'more able' meaning taking 2 out of 10. He says it's not that he doesn't want to play kokonoe, as he wants to play against her until he's satisfied.

also notes that he's not the type of person to play a weak character and keep trying hard, but someone to either stop playing the game or switch characters.

[samthegreat]

I think some characters handle Kokonoe better than Rachel, like Bang, maybe Valk idk. Still a pretty rough matchup.

[Tari]

I don't think most characters can actually deal with Kokonoe at all, honestly. Rachel has a halfway decent shot at it because she has a large assortment of tools at her disposal (though the lack of a fast dash works against her here), but it's still not enough.

That aside, I'm pretty sad to hear about N-O's frustration(?) with Kokonoe. Can't really say anything about it, because it makes sense, but it's still sad.

In vaguely related news, you can punish Kokonoe in the corner after her super fireball reversal with 5C FC. Cancelling into BBL before the fireball hits you will allow you to get hit, tech, and then continue your combo on Kokonoe. You take around 450 damage from the fireball if you do that.

Not sure if there's a better way around it yet, outside of using OD to invuln through the fireball, which will always work.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAbMsqFB2gw#t=35s

Edited November 27, 2013 by Tari

[TD]

even those who do well against her cant necessarily handle her. the faster characters, able to punish her for setting up; get past banishing ray without dying or blocking; get past the fireball and fight the graviton gravity, they should be fine, but its still a matter of dealing with those normals. combined, there really isn't an angle kokonoe can't cover in any situation. so its very close to even in those matchups like bang.

rachel can technically do all of these things but must choose wisely as most of this match is rps, and kokonoe could just not do the thing rachel is trying to beat, get unblock'd to death, and that is pretty crappy to deal with. in general kokonoe's reward > rachel's with less risk involved. its crazy.

[Rhapsody]

Didn't know about the 5C FC punish on wakeup fireball. I've been doing IB and a timed throw for a throw counter to get past her fireball super. Too bad Rachel doesn't get much damage off of throw though.

Edit: Disappointing to hear those things from N-O. Definitely sympathize on how he feels on the matchup. :/

Edited November 27, 2013 by Rhapsody

[Tari]

Didn't know about the 5C FC punish on wakeup fireball. I've been doing IB and a timed throw for a throw counter to get past her fireball super. Too bad Rachel doesn't get much damage off of throw though.

Edit: Disappointing to hear those things from N-O. Definitely sympathize on how he feels on the matchup. :/

Yeah, you can't throw her if you have to barrier cancel something or if you were dashing when she does it, so in that case, the 5C FC is probably the best option. Only leads into 3.6k with BBL, though. If you OD to get through the fireball return path, you can get around 4.2k or so with BBL, I think? Can't recall for sure. Might be able to do more; my Rachel combo paths are pretty terrible in this game at the moment.

I think you can also just 5C FC > late 5CC and then get hit by the fireball and come out either with frame advantage or neutral, but again, I don't recall for certain, and it seems like a terrible option. I think I'd rather 6B CH > IAD back and summon a bunch of stuff instead.

[Rhapsody]

Yeah, you can't throw her if you have to barrier cancel something or if you were dashing when she does it, so in that case, the 5C FC is probably the best option. Only leads into 3.6k with BBL, though. If you OD to get through the fireball return path, you can get around 4.2k or so with BBL, I think? Can't recall for sure. Might be able to do more; my Rachel combo paths are pretty terrible in this game at the moment.

I think you can also just 5C FC > late 5CC and then get hit by the fireball and come out either with frame advantage or neutral, but again, I don't recall for certain, and it seems like a terrible option. I think I'd rather 6B CH > IAD back and summon a bunch of stuff instead.

I thought the same with dashing until I realized I could just IB by jumping out of my dash. But as you said, there have been times where I was forced to kara cancel into barrier after sticking a normal out, so knowing about 5C in this helps. I really do want to mess with that 5C and even OD stuff though, especially if we have lotus on her.

Messing around in the Kokonoe matchup recently, seems like if the player has the habit of doing 6B into 22A, we're able to punish by doing any type of block (besides IB probably) on the first hit, then IB barrier the 2nd hit, and doing 6B fork after. Seems to get us just out of range of 22A to score us a CH. They'll catch on, but at least we opt to not 6B and escape out of pressure.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Rhapsody

[Errol]

can you not do the standard 5c>frog>2c combo?

[Tari]

I thought the same with dashing until I realized I could just IB by jumping out of my dash. But as you said, there have been times where I was forced to kara cancel into barrier after sticking a normal out, so knowing about 5C in this helps. I really do want to mess with that 5C and even OD stuff though, especially if we have lotus on her.

Yeah, I wanted to mess with Lotus, but I honestly have no idea what I'm doing with it at the moment, so I opted to leave it out.

Not sure why I thought we couldn't jump during the startup of the fireball. It's at least 5 frames after superflash, so there's definitely time for it. Thanks for pointing it out.

can you not do the standard 5c>frog>2c combo?

If you mean midscreen, then yeah. I just did a whatever combo.

If you mean in the corner, then no. You're still in recovery from summoning George when the fireball falls on your head. Can't even block.

Edit:

After thinking about it for a bit, Rhapsody's comment about jumping to instant block Kokonoe's fireball made me realize... you can just kara-cancel a move into barrier, let go, and then instant block normally anyway. Might be somewhat weird feeling to do it on reaction to the superflash if you're not used to it, but it's pretty easy. Pretty much any character with a dash can just do that to IB at any range and then run in and get a counter throw on Kokonoe.

At point blank, you can just kara into barrier and then release the barrier for a normal block, too. Can still throw counter, if I recall correctly, as long as you aren't really far away.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Tari

[samthegreat]

N-O wins mixup night!!

Ｎ男　ＴＨＥ　ＧＯＤ

[gli]

N-O wins mixup night!!

Ｎ男　ＴＨＥ　ＧＯＤ

THIS

[TD]

the new cmv's are tough. plenty of style points and things l haven't seen. l must say, brilliant works.

the execution must have been somewhat daunting. lotus combos look like they could be inconsistent, and some other combos look like one must pay attention to every intricate details. l can't wait to see how/if anyone tops these last two cmv's.

[Zoular]

I'm liking the Iris cross ups more than anything else

[Stonefist J]

I'm not entirely if this is the right thread to ask, but here's my question. During your own time practicing or playing online which of the Lotus's did you feel benefited you best? For me it's been the A lotus (Beelze Lotus) because of it's homing properties.

[Celerity]

B Lotus is the one with homing. A Lotus isn't really seen (by me anyway) outside of combo videos. I messed around with it some, but it's a pretty big investment just to hinder the opponent's movement, and it changes some of your combo routes in annoying ways, making stuff like j.C 2D impossible.

[Tari]

The only times I've really seen A Lotus used is when a Rachel is timing the opponent out or just zoning an low-health opponent. Pretty much never see it used outside of those situations, probably because of the whole messing up Rachel's combo routes thing.

I haven't really used either of the Lotus moves much yet, but that's mostly because I just haven't learned to use them in this game. :/ Should probably training mode my Rachel some more, or at least use her more in matches.