[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Errol]

the purpose of that combo is double oki and not wind regen

[Soniti]

It accomplishes both.

[kirbster]

He's been doing that combo for over a year though lol

[TD]

hes been doing that combo for a very long time, im surprised you didn't see it beforehand. he has an alternate version which l haven't been able to see which lasts longer, but here it is. ...jb ja jc land dash 5b 5c 214c dash 5b 6a delay 236a microdash 6a (dash) 5a 6a delay 4b slight delay 5cc 214b 3c 214a. and another if there is no pole and 5cc has to be used early: ...5cc dash 5b 6a delay 4b 214b dash 5a 6a 236a 3c 214a

[Soniti]

Corner combo vs Bang, credit Someonewhodied.

 

~5b 5cc 5b 6a delay 5a 6a delay 236a 6a 4b 3c

 

Doesn't work if you are too far into the combo. From far distance 2b starter on a standing Bang, I had to omit 6b to make it work.

(2b 5b j.3d j.b j.c ~)

[tetora_desu]

Hi guys, trying to pick up rachel. Could anyone help with her fullscreen neutral. I get the zoning part, but I don't know when i should use my wind and how I should use it.

[Kuuhaku]

It depends on a lot of things. On a base level 236A 9D and j.236A/B 3D and 236B/C 3D cover a lot of space. But generally you want to be able to coordinate multiple tools for better space control. For example if you normally use like j.236A/B and they run under it and you have no second defense, depending on the mobility of the character you could be really screwed. However, if you also have pumpkin out a ground approach is largely closed off and zoning with those tools becomes much more effective.

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4959-cp-rachel-gameplay-guide/ Covers a lot of stuff actually. It's not really something that's easy to explain in a condensed way other than your goal is to combine Rachel's tools to put the person you're playing against in a bad situation. You also have to keep in mind that some characters have tools to go over/under Rachel's stuff so you also have to adjust for that.

[Wild Candy]

Hey, long time lurker of the Rachel Forums.

 

What are some good ways to pressure the opponent close range?
 

Like, I know your main goal is go into 5B and do a 50/50 mix up. But, what should you do if your low on wind? Should you use stagger pressure at all? Is it possible to force the game back into neutral? What are your main Pressure normals other then 5B and 2A?

 

Thanks for reading. 

[tofurr]

It's been a while since I've really played, but I would probably back off if I was low on wind to do mix-up/pressure and just lay out some lobelias and George, space with 6B, and try to stop jump-ins with 6A? Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kuuhaku]

It just really depends. It's more worth doing if you're close to regaining one wind you need for some kind of setup, especially if they're in the corner.

 

You can stagger gatlings with like 5A/2A and gatlings from it (including repeating 2A and 5A). If your plan is to jump cancel and back out, you can wait until you're pushed back pretty far to 5B or 6B and super jump or IAD backwards. IAD/jumping backwards and throwing B/C cannon is pretty common, but if the person you're up against is very gusty they can try to run under it to get you. 3C and 3[C] is also a safe windless way to end pressure, but many people will try to IB it and come after you. If you can safely get them to block 236A at a good distance, that's also a good time to back off. If you have a rod out and can safely gatling into Sword Iris, both versions are plus and that can also be a good time to get out.

 

Or you can also go for a tick grab or TRM setup if you're low on wind and don't have George/Pumpkin out. That way if they do see it or tech it, you'll get pushed back pretty far and against most characters can reasonably escape without being pursued. If they don't, then they'll get tossed and since you can't combo off of it, that can also be a great time to back off.

[Soniti]

When baiting counter-assaults as Rachel, connecting the dash 5b is difficult at further ranges on some characters, so I made myself a list of which characters you can do a 6b starter punish on. Figured I may as well share it.

 

Counter-assaults that can be 6b punished:

Bang, Bullet*, Carl, Hakumen*, Hazama, Jin, Kagura*, Kokonoe, Litchi, Noel, Platinum*, Rachel, Ragna, Relius, Tager*, Taokaka, Tsubaki, Terumi, Valkenhayn, Mu, Nu

 

Counter-assaults that you need to dash 5b punish:

Amane, Arakune,  Izayoi, Makoto

 

Counter-assault that can only be (1f microdash if necessary) 5a punished and only on IB:

Azrael    

 

 

* = not on barrier block

[Errol]

LOLLLLLLLLL why is azraels counter assault -5. 

[Errol]

bullets ca is -14, why would that be in need to dash 5b?

 

unclear to me why 6b would be easier than dash 5b. you should be able to get a dash 5b in under the 13 frames of 6b. 

[Soniti]

bullets ca is -14, why would that be in need to dash 5b?

 

unclear to me why 6b would be easier than dash 5b. you should be able to get a dash 5b in under the 13 frames of 6b. 

Oops, fixed Bullet.

 

The dash 5b is easy at close ranges, but sometimes you block CA at a pretty far distance such as during some situations where they are blocking frog. In those spots, you would probably need to spend 1 wind to combo anyway and the starter proration on 6b is the same as 5b. If you are point blank, just dash 5b.

 

In most situations you have time to dash 5b but if you are on netplay with some delay just doing a 6b punish is WAAAAY easier.

 

I should probably note how barrier blocking changes this list because a common scenario for this is [blocked frog] dash up barrier cancel to block counter-assault.

edit: done

[Errol]

Yeah, I guess you can just mash on 6b till it hits.

[Soniti]

You can just press and hold 6b for the 5f input repeat.

[Errol]

it's only 3f in CP.

[DudeUnderscore]

just a question, on a 5B/2B/j.B starter combo in a corner why do people do 6A > 5A > 6A combo route instead of 5B > 6A > 236A route?

[Soniti]

To buy extra time for wind regen/frog cooldown. If you aren't low on wind or needing to waste time for frog cooldown, the 5b 6a route is fine.

[Wild Candy]

Hey, I'm a player whose constantly been switching characters... But I want to end all of that and main Rachel. I feel like Rachel's my best shot at improving as a player, and I really want to become good with Rachel. 

 

If you ever want to play, or help me improve my subpar Rachel, don't afraid to add me on PSN. Okay?

[KID CHARIZARD]

So im a begginer rachel and im rrying to learn her so if anyone has any pointers or tips just message me or add me on psn @KID_CHARIZARD

[gamester]

So Loketest changes and whatnot. Anything we need to cover or should know about?

 

I read via Twitter discussions there has been a change 4B which I believe reading here says it floats lower and you can connect 3C from it.

I honestly wouldn't mind being able to connect 4B > 3C

[TD]

But 4b 3c already connects via a link. And isn't 4b special cancel only?

Seems like both a buff and a nerf to me, depending on how high the foe is when using 4b to juggle. The higher the better, for example it would be easier to use 5cc from the highest 4b hit without using a wind, but any lower and it will be hard to connect things like 5cc as a filler for wind regen/oki combos. Then there is the raw 4b hit. It was already difficult to connect 5a from this, so I want to know how this lower bounce is going to affect her.

Really bogus list of rachel nerfs had me scared to death, but it turned out to be expectations. We were looking at a worse cs1 rachel for a moment, or maybe just slightly better. But for now we don't have much, with only the 4b bit sounding legit so far.

[gamester]

May be I've been doing something wrong for 4B > 3C not to connect then? xD I tend to use one of these 236A/5A/5B/6A/6B/5CC off various 4B hits though.

Yeah, those expectations didn't sound good from what I read through. Rachel doesn't need much changing, I think she's fine as she is right now. All I would like to see is current pre-patch pumpkin back.

[Tari]

Do you guys have a list of changes announced for her anywhere? I looked a little and didn't see them, probably looking in the wrong places.

 

Haven't bothered looking at the JP BBS, because it hurts my head to go there (I can't read Japanese!), haha.