[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Soniti]

I would swear N-O wasn't using it quite as much.  As for the lotus, did they improve the hitbox or something?  They look bigger to me.

This was day 1 footage so N-O was testing stuff such as lotus oki. I don't think the hitbox changed on lotus, just the attack level and startup.

[gamester]

Sorry for all the testing around with stuff in the new CP1.1 Thread. Trying to improve on the last thread and I hope it's looking better/more presentable? Any suggestions/feedback are always welcome if you have anything on your mind

I'll be adding video links soon and update the rankings tomorrow as well.

[currentlemon]

I've been hearing that her 2C got better in the new update.  Can someone give me an explanation on how 2C got better?

[Tari]

I've been hearing that her 2C got better in the new update.  Can someone give me an explanation on how 2C got better?

I believe we're no longer punishable on normal hit? Untech time was increased by a good size. The opponent floats less, too.

Never really understood why it was punishable on normal hit, but at least they seem to have finally addressed that issue.

Someone else can probably give you more deatiled info. :P

[Zoular]

Weren't the hit stun on normal hit really poor, that someone with good air recovery could neutral air tech, and punish Rachel while she is still in recovery.

2C – On a ground hit, it cannot be techable until the electricity has finished, also adjusted how far people are blown away and the untechable time

Sounds like they'll remain shocked until 2C starts recovering

[Soniti]

With the 1.1 changes, you can do 2C (CH) 2d microdash 5b6a236a etc, but it is still a short starter so I'm not sure if you can do the remaining 3c iris 5cc.

[Errol]

sketchy on various characters. 

[TyGuy22786]

Any idea how changes to lotus will affect Rachel's gameplay? I know the attack level and proration changed, but I'm having trouble understanding how these changes translate to her gameplay. Are they better for zoning now? Are they easier to combo off of? Will A lotus be more useful? I think lotus was a fun/nice addition to CP, and I hope the changes in CP 1.1 make them even more useful. Thanks guys!

[Celerity]

Any idea how changes to lotus will affect Rachel's gameplay? I know the attack level and proration changed, but I'm having trouble understanding how these changes translate to her gameplay. Are they better for zoning now? Are they easier to combo off of? Will A lotus be more useful? I think lotus was a fun/nice addition to CP, and I hope the changes in CP 1.1 make them even more useful. Thanks guys!

 

Attack level affects the projectile's hitstun/blockstun, and the proration change means damage will scale less when you use it in the middle of a combo. It's not really clear yet whether this will enable 22A combos to be more viable, but there will be more time to combo from it, as you said. AFAIK there's no change to the way they affect wind, so they still work the same in neutral, they just take a little longer to reach the opponent.

[Zoular]

So I was watching the 1.10 a-cho video and have a couple questions. In regards to pumpkin, it's floating higher and further away (possibly faster?), but staying in place for like half a second longer, right?

I noticed this in a recent video, I think the Pumpkin is indeed higher when summoned. Quick example, on opponent knock down in corner, when you would go for pumpkin  oki.

Rachel's 2A would catch slow teching or roll out attempts

2A > 5B > j.C > 2D > 5B > 6A > 236A > 6A > 4B > 3C > 214B to get the same situation again

however when I saw the Rachel this without adding j.A/B before j.C the pumpkin would hit. Example without j.A Example with j.B and this

[Errol]

it's just that pumpkin doesn't move before it goes active, just like the patch notes said

[gli]

hime = best character

 

proof

 

[TD]

cute, yes, but how is this proving she is the best character? not that l disagree with you. because she is. involving the pumpkin change, it seems good after oki, you can get more uses out of multiple 2d's. *= pumpkin blocked (corner pumpkin oki) 2d* ja jb dj 2d* land 2b while this is possible in previous games, it's actually safe due to the second pumpkin block, thanks to the buff. N-O does it quite a bit in the a-cho posted above. errol is also right. it only didnt hit before due to the 5f startup on pumpkin. it means rolls are going to be more difficult to beat, or we'll have to start doing jb jc instead of jc, which is still good compared to the former.

[samthegreat]

Dude we're not talking about gameplay. She's just the best period.

 

Also, new roll catch is 2A 5B j.B j.C 2D land 6A 4B 5CC 3C

[Errol]

less wind regen and no added pole is unfortunate. if you have pumpkin you have to use jb, if you use frog frog usually hits, unfortuantely. 

[Tari]

less wind regen and no added pole is unfortunate. if you have pumpkin you have to use jb, if you use frog frog usually hits, unfortuantely.

I'm assuming you can still get a pole out, but it would lessen the wind gain and damage. Not sure how worthwhile it is. Wish we could sit down and test it ourselves, hah.

[Errol]

why not? the adjustment is to make the pumpkin not hit, so if you do 2a5bjbjc that's the same as this version.

 

but the added height and time used by having to do jbJC just kills the idea of doing 5b6a236a>6a4b>5cc. it would work on a normal starter with good timing but not a jab.

 

this is my conclusion testing in this version anyway.

[Tari]

why not? the adjustment is to make the pumpkin not hit, so if you do 2a5bjbjc that's the same as this version.

 

but the added height and time used by having to do jbJC just kills the idea of doing 5b6a236a>6a4b>5cc. it would work on a normal starter with good timing but not a jab.

 

this is my conclusion testing in this version anyway.

I thought there was an adjustment to j.A as a starter, but in retrospect, it's already an S starter, so I suppose we can just test it.

Somehow wasn't thinking very clearly, sorry about that.

Against some characters, you can do this: 2A > 5B > jc j.B > j.C2D > 6A > 4B > (delay) 236A > 5CC > 3C > frog oki

It's pretty weird, though.

In any case, I think there are variations that should work even with the j.B. You could always just omit the 5CC and get a stable combo that way, but that loses you wind regen and damage, as I mentioned earlier. Need to go play around some with this.

[Wild Candy]

Okay, some newbie Rachel questions. 

 

What are some good ways to combo off of Rachel's IOH?

 

Also, what are some good ways to end blockstrings if you start getting low on wind?

 

Lastly, what are some good meaties in the corner to use while Geoge is activating?

 

Thanks for your help

[gli]

What are some good ways to combo off of Rachel's IOH?

I am not 100% certain of what you are asking. If you mean how do you get IOH to land so you can get a combo off of it, usually you confirm opponent is blocking and stick in IOH j.A. After that, depending on your resources and distance from opponent, you can go for either 5CC or 3C knockdown.

 

Also, what are some good ways to end blockstrings if you start getting low on wind?

Ending in 3C is generally safe. Depends on match-up / distance you get pushed from getting blocked.

Lastly, what are some good meaties in the corner to use while Geoge is activating?

Depends on match-up. Meaty 5B is your main one but it is not a safe option against every character.

A good meaty will catch rolls + leave you safe if they neutral tech + easy to hitconfirm.

[Wild Candy]

okay, thanks for the tips.

 

I'm still a bit of a flunky when it comes to Rachel, and I'm not very good. Still I guess I'll keep on practicing and hope I get better.

[Soniti]

In the corner from IOH j.a you have 3 main combo routes.

 

1) j.a j.b (dash) 5b 5cc 5b 6a 236a 3c

 

for this one, walk backwards a bit if you are too close after the 5cc before continuing

 

2) j.a j.b (dash) 5b 5cc 5b 6a 236a 6a BBL

 

self explanatory, combo into super

 

3) j.a j.b (dash) 5b 5c 214c 4b 5cc (summon stuff) 3c

 

this route requires a pole already out but gets your better oki with both pumpkin and frog

[Stoneroth]

There is also this for the corner:

 

j.A > j.B (or j.C) > dash > 5B > 5CC > 214A > 8D > 236A > 3C (1) > frog > 236B > dash > 6A > BBL

 

Does about 3k damage currently and you can also extend it with OD and meter for a kill combo. Handy to know if George is available.

 

If you do George oki in the corner and land j.A > j.B to start, I'm pretty sure all you can do is the basic ...5B > 6A > 236A > 3C > 214B route etc.

 

I personally like going for a j.B starter sometimes, you can loop George oki:

 

3C > 214A... j.2DB > frog > j.236C > 5B > 6A > 236A > 5B > 6A > 4B > 5CC > 214B > 3C > 214A

 

Midscreen, all you're really going to get is j.A > j.B > dash > 5B > 5CC/3C > 214B/214A It's not really worth spending wind

Also, can anybody explain why the corner 5CC > 6A > 5A > 6A > 236A > 6A > 4B > 3C route is used at all? I have no idea why.

[Soniti]

I think it's because it is a bit longer for more wind regen if you are low?

[Tari]

Wasn't it for height correction if the 5CC wallstuck the opponent too low? I may be wrong, though.