[^C] Baiken [STRAT]

[rtl42]

not as of yet -- this stemmed from a question i made regarding one of Beru's (Bell's) last Slash vids in the 23v23 team match from GameChariot a month ago, where he used j.K on wake-up consistently enough to convince me he wasn't screwing up his tatami input. i couldn't figure out why, because it doesn't seem very safe to me, if you time it "meatily", because it will always lose to anyone's 6P. however, the ability to use j.K on okizeme may be something like a "level 2" yomi strategy. initially ("level 1"), you'd start with something like meaty j.P, or maybe even meaty j.S, which will be safe against things like 6P, uppercut, wake-up super, etc. -- i.e. wake-up (reversal) attacks that would beat j.K. Once you condition your opponent with that, then you change to doing either an empty jump-in, or a j.K. That's just my guess, though; I've never had to work through those layers of mind-games against my local competition (nor do I see this very often in match videos, even in Japanese ones), so I can't speak of this from personal experience.

[Hellmonkey]

What move of slayer's would beat baiken's meaty j.K (who I noticed beru using it mostly against..)

[MoonLessNight]

I guess it's one of those things where a player can use something repeatedly and for some unknown godly reason no one will punish he/she for doing said thing (Thinks about Raph and his J.HS)...super inside joke I guess but nonetheless...

[rtl42]

What move of slayer's would beat baiken's meaty j.K (who I noticed beru using it mostly against..)

Well like I said, 6P will go through it because of the start-up invincibility (unless I'm misinterpreting the comments on the frame data). Can't he BDC through it, though?

[Snicker-Snack]

Well like I said, 6P will go through it because of the start-up invincibility (unless I'm misinterpreting the comments on the frame data). Can't he BDC through it, though?

Most of the time, upper body invincible moves shouldn't be able to avoid a deep jumping meaty, except if Baiken's j.k has an absurdly high hitbox, but I don't think that's the case.

And even if it manages to go through Baiken's j.k, Baiken will be able to land and block before the 6p goes into it's active frames.

Normal throwing a properly made safe meaty isn't an option either, as by the time you hit the ground, your opponent will be either in:

1-blockstun, (or hitstun,) from the meaty. Even on IB, you have more than enough time to follow up.

2-In the startup of an invincible move, in which case you proceed to block said move.

BDC Bite will work, but that carries it's own series of risks (particularly in Slash), and it's not something most Slayers would try doing most of the time AFAIK.

[rtl42]

Most of the time, upper body invincible moves shouldn't be able to avoid a deep jumping meaty, except if Baiken's j.k has an absurdly high hitbox, but I don't think that's the case.

fair enough, that's quite possible. however...

And even if it manages to go through Baiken's j.k, Baiken will be able to land and block before the 6p goes into it's active frames.

i'm not so sure about that. Baiken still has 12 frames of recovery to go through, and all 6Ps become active in less than 12 frames. landing won't negate the recovery animation, AFAIK.

[Snicker-Snack]

i'm not so sure about that. Baiken still has 12 frames of recovery to go through, and all 6Ps become active in less than 12 frames. landing won't negate the recovery animation, AFAIK.

It does, actually. Landing cuts whatever air move you were doing immediately, whether you were in startup, active frames, or recovery. Landing recovery is, very obviously, a completely different matter.

[低姿勢]

Random thought... since you can cancle run gaurd with her alpha counters now, what happens if you jump install the run gaurd and then alpha counter? Do the alpha counters get air properties.. Say you run gaurd to run alpha coutner then your hit out of it, can you then tech the hit? Since the game counts you as in the air? Or do that new super jump alpha counter, if it hits will the game allow you to go for random RC mix ups or combos? Or does it not carry over....

[HmR.kS]

You can't install a jump into Suzuran.

[低姿勢]

and why cant you? You can jump install fireballs etc etc... Why would there be one random move in the game that just doenst allow you to jump install it.

[HmR.kS]

I thought you can only jump install into a move that allows jump cancellation?

[Hellmonkey]

You can jump install a DP, which doesn't.

[HmR.kS]

Okay it seems like I'm really missing something important here... LOL

[rtl42]

Read up on what it means to Jump Install a move in the General Gameplay FAQ. There's nothing wrong with what 低姿勢 said.

[Hellmonkey]

The new alpha counter puts Baiken in the air, she can get air thrown out of it

[Zakuta Asura]

Back to the j.K discussion - j.K is also good against wake up dragon.

[Hellmonkey]

j.K is teh ultimate

[rtl42]

wtfux r u srs

[Zakuta Asura]

It's true! :D~ Ditch those Tatami's....if you want to safely get in without the prospect of getting sparked by a VV or even a super, j.K is the way to go!

[HmR.kS]

.. Am I not getting something? Is j.K really that good? Can someone give me a more detailed explanation?

[Zakuta Asura]

Wake-up j.K is almost like a free jump-in. You can recover to block reversal attacks and you don't have to worry about 6P's or any low profile attack - plus the j.K still connects, so you're eliminating some threatening options. It's perhaps more reliable than Tatami, but it does require timing.

[MoonLessNight]

I'd like to see the new changes about J.k because I'm still not getting it either. Regardless supposedly at FRX this year they are bringing an AC cabinet so I guess I'll see for myself in a few days granted it comes. Still I'd like to see the official changes about J.k if it's really that good now.

[Hellmonkey]

if you can lay a tatami on them and recover before they wake up it will always be the best option against characters with uppercut, unless you're playing mind games

[Zakuta Asura]

Nothing has changed with j.K - it's the same as it's always been. It's just that some Baiken players may have figured out that it's actually a good move to set up with. It really only leaves the defender with 2 options - block and backdash (and in both situations, Baiken is in better shape - you'll recover fast enough to do something about that backdash).

[Hellmonkey]

you'll recover fast enough to do something about that backdash.

Actually.. I don't think that's the case vs most of the faster backdashes.