[^C] Baiken [STRAT]

[Hellmonkey]

Spamming counters mindlessly is scrubby, there is no learning process in spamming something mindlessly, just like there is no learning how to block if you just mash under pressure. Yes, players should experiment with things obviously, but I don't see what that has to do with spamming/mashing things out. When I put information here I try to share not only technical information about baiken, combos, translated frame data, etc. but also what should be going through your head as you play. Since other Baiken players may not have the experience, competition, knowledge, or time to learn or apply these things themselves I put the information here. As long as they have the will to become a better player I hope that they will try to apply the advice I give successfully and become better players. While I clearly am not as good as Japanese players, and I don't think anyone in America really is mainly due to lack of high-level competition from all characters, I think I have enough knowledge and experience to accurately and effectively give this information.

[Villainous]

I think it's probably best to not play in a counter mind set from what I've seen. When I was very first starting out with her, I noticed that I was sitting around waiting to guard a lot when I really shouldn't be, just wanting to test the waters with my counters. Now that I'm more used to them, I just play normally and if I by some chance get stuck blocking, then I use them. I think there's a lot more to her than just the counters though, it's just when you finally get stuck in a bad position, she has a nice little way out if need be. Zoning the hell out of them with air tatamis and then applying pressure when they're under block stun from one seems to be my general plan of attack. Or poking the hell out of them with 2D -> tatami fishing for hits into combo.

[MoonLessNight]

the only way to get it right is to get it wrong.

[Zakuta Asura]

Ugh, I had an epic post about vs. Jam and Testament but NOW I'VE LOST IT I guess I'll write it all up when I get home later ¬_¬

[Xiomar]

thanx for postin up all of the advice Hellmonkey and everyone else that seems to be puttin good stuff up. as a new GG player this helps out A LOT and saves me tons of frustration from experimenting w/ shit I don't know. -Q AKA Xiomar AKA Q.GrayFox

[youcanwonder]

my toughest fights are eddie and sol....and thogh baiken is suppose to beat them...im lost on what to do....ahhhhhhhh

[Villainous]

thanx for postin up all of the advice Hellmonkey and everyone else that seems to be puttin good stuff up.

as a new GG player this helps out A LOT and saves me tons of frustration from experimenting w/ shit I don't know.

-Q AKA Xiomar AKA Q.GrayFox

Yeah I agree, you guys have been a big help. Much more straight to the point and well informed than most of the character threads that I frequent.

STILL WAITING FOR A REAL COMBO LIST THOUGH. =P

[Shinjin]

Okay, so I decided to come out from my hibernation and actually start contributing

with some my experiences etc. etc. So here´s something for that 101 thread, about

counters. Lets first take a look at sakura:

. Sakura

Sakura is your counter of choice if you want to punnish moves with long recovery that

dont put your opponent in counterhitstate, for example Slayers 2D/6HS and Jams 6HS/puffball.

Now as for other aspects of the Sakura counter, is that it is quite safe to through out

there in comparrison to other counters. For example if someone actually blocks your

sakura-counter you will get your chance to act. Some options would be:

- short dash throw/6K-mixup

- 2K/5P into pressure/yzn

- backdash / retreat

In other words, you have a some sort of yomi-battle after a blocked sakura. Keep in mind

though, that if someone actually blocked it they probably will be waiting for you. So

if you dont feel that you have implemented "the fear" into your opponent, playing it safe

would probably be the best option.

Random matchup specific notes about Sakura:

Now there is one character that can completly fuck up sakura, Testament. Sakura has 2frames of activity, and the frc is on those two frames (17-18). Testaments Nets remove one frame of activity per net. In other words, if you hit the 17th frame frc, and testament has ONE net in the sakura-hitbox, the sakura will completly miss. Same goes with two nets, frc on 18th frame. Good testament-players know this, so knowing this is ABC.

As for combo-followups one could say there are 3-options:

1. Dust-combo

2. dash 5HS tatami-combo

3. 6HS IAD-combo

I leave the choosing up to you guys, but just dont run and do 2K-> combo.... that just´s wrong!

Now some people would say "hey, why use sakura when you have baku?". Well, as I said in the beginning, sakura can COMBO even if it isnt counterhit. Just because the damage after sakura got nerfed doesnt mean its bad in any way. Fundamentally, one could say that baku needs a setup and sakura just needs a slow attack. Now since I´ve started talking about baku, lets have a look at that counter:

. Baku

Okay, Baku is the bomb. Especially in certain setups. For actually combo´ing after a baku you _NEED_ a counterhit. If you dont know you will get a counterhit, your better off using Sakura, that is of course if you dont want to do a followup. Some examples for baku-setups are Slayers 6K (aircounterhit) and Dizzys 6HS (ground counterhit).

Aircounterhit = combo combo combo!! Im currently experimenting with combo-posibilities from aircounterhit baku on ex. slayers 6K, buts either one does:

6HS/5S jD -> combo

or Kiri-Tatami -> combo

Since Baku has no prorate use this to its full potential okay?

As for groundcounterhit it kinda goes like this:

5HS tatami -> combo

6HS IAD -> combo

Now for the followups.

P: No dash, no backdash, no jump, no movement.

- Now this followup is really sweet. Since its duration is pretty long, you basically control

the flow of the match for some time, and by sealing your opponent AA of choice by pressing

the corresponding normals button, you can kinda do whatever the fuck you want. The only backset is that you dont really got anything for granted. People can still block you and you used 50%

tension for like 51 guaranteed damage, instead of 25% for +120dmg and knockdown.

K: All its become counterhits.

- Worst of the followups. No real usage if your not trying to showoff with some specific combos. Use it when you want to humiliate someone when they have low HP.

S: Next hit = unblockable.

- AKA goldburst setup. Baku -> S -> D (for knockdown and sealing their burst). Then do a meaty-goldburst and then follow that up with 5HS/6HS/IAD jHS-meaty for some free damage. Versus ABA you can remove a whole Moroha guage by doing something like:

Baku -> blabla knockdown, Goldburst meaty knockdown, meaty kabari frc shit blabla knockdown IK.

But unblockable-combos have a really nasty prorate, so its only to be used if you want full tension, want to be flashy or kill ABA a from random counter.

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unfortunatly, working 7-16 is tough so I have to go to sleep now. I´ll finnish it up with Mawarikomi,Ouren (in sweden AKA CHOMOLANGA!!!!!!!) and Youshijin + couters as yomi and choosing counters. Hope you found it useful and keep in mind that english is NOT my native language so just bare with it ok?

[rtl42]

what's kiri-tatami?

[Hellmonkey]

I thought it was kire, not kiri, which I believe means IAD tatami. I'll go ahead and edit this into the 101 thread Also I'll add in that you do need to be FRCing sakura since you didn't really say that I also changed/added some things, and fixed some English.

[Shinjin]

Nice job Hellmonkey. Honestly I havent thougth to much to the K-followup of Baku but yeah it might have some cool uses, i´ll try ´em out ingame and see how it feels. I still haven´t had time to write about the other counters yet though, but I´ll probably do it sometime during next week or so.

[Hellmonkey]

kk, I'll work on finishing up the 101 after evo

[cupui]

Hello I'm still new here. I want to learn using Baiken. Can you tell me what should I learn first?

[CABINET SMASHER]

The first page of this thread would be a start.

[Hellmonkey]

There is a 101 thread with lots of information. Learn her combos, and if you have people to practice with, her pokes, counters, and how and when to use them. She plays somewhat differently than other characters, so if you're learning her from someone else you will need to adjust. Watch lots of match videos, preferably from top Japanese players, to get a good idea of what to use when. Other than that you need to get down all the basics: blocking, baiting, okizeme, etc. if you haven't already.

[Linuka]

First Baiken post by me, need to make my presence known, yo. Is it worthwhile to FRC counter the sakura to go into dust counter? Or does the counter priorate too much? I decided to pick up Baiken after I got tired of Ky, and everybody else playing Ky, and everybody I play know how I play Ky. Baiken always caught my eye, and I finally decided to try her out. Now the people I play with (Spire, mainly, haha) say that I'm a lot better with Baiken then Ky. I find it hard to try to keep up with 2 characters at once. But I'm trying to, although when you play Baiken for a few hours, then go back to Ky, you try to do counters... >.>

[Hellmonkey]

Sakura FRC standing dust is fairly strong because if the sakura connects you get your dust combo which gives you a corner knockdown and does decent damage, and if they block it you can break their guard with the dust and still get the damage and knockdown. There is some proration on Sakura, but Baiken should try to get damage wherever she can, because she has trouble getting in on a lot of people (faust, eddie, axl, etc) Most people tend to look for a low or throw after sakura because that is the safest way to follow up so dust catches people off guard a lot. As you play more, you wont have so much trouble switching between characters. Make sure that all the moves you do are thought out- dont just do a random tatami mats or counters. Think about what the opponent will do and respond.

[pulsr]

I often eat cheeseburgers while practicing combos with May. I find it to be quite relaxing.. except when I spill sauce on my shirt. Every time that happens I get mad and slam my joystick, which usually causes may to taunt. I love May's taunt.. it has such a good calming effect. I suggest Baiken players do the same thing, but don't taunt because it makes Baiken sound like a man.. Also Jo is a scrub, he will never beat Hellmonkey or Alex.

[Hazard]

I know when to drop t mats to rock peoples' faces off. But I seem to be getting too trigger happy with them and getting punished is wicked with Baiken. Are there any match ups or times I should know about where dropping them too often is extra fatal? I notice it the most against May.

[Hellmonkey]

Just make sure you're spaced correctly and do them low to the ground and they're almost completely unpunishable.

[Hazard]

Also, how come sometimes when I use Youshijin it doesn't knock them upward?

[Hellmonkey]

ground non-counterhit doesn't launch

[cupui]

Hmmm...I'd like to ask about her force break. What the difference? Because I see a different card animation when I press a different command? Because I can't find the guide in this thread? Can you show me where? If there aren't, does anybody can tell me the differences? THX

[Hellmonkey]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3195

Is it that difficult to read?

[SH_]

yes