zaeris Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 i believe yes there has been a few move that has an overall damage decrease but overall the number is still nice. the only problem is our throw combo cant use 2x 412d236d
Owner Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Maybe it's because of the SMP change SMP in 1.0 kinda messed around with the damage of the moves that follow afterwards, I guess?
Kiba Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 well i didnt want to quote this but i was refering to this, since its quite long, this is what i meant by double 6c combo since the damage and everything else is samish lol. only thing i would change for others is who wants an easier path is 5c ch>6c> 623cj214d because doing 6cc makings it harder to 623cj214 d to connect without using delay but would cause issue with the 6cc 236b harder to connect. the only other difference is less untech time going double 6c path which can be quite small. and the double 6c path compared to 236c 5c 2c pick up has quite similar damage. With regards to those combos you're right. I thought I sorted out those combos but I'll go back and change it.
Zouf Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Maybe it's because of the SMP change SMP in 1.0 kinda messed around with the damage of the moves that follow afterwards, I guess? SMP isn't just to reduce the length of a combo, not the damage? To prevent loops
Airk Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Yeah, I have a suspicion that SMP actually does affect damage a bit even though the wiki says it doesn't.
Kiba Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Oh yeah I forgot to mention since 236D pushes an opponent forward now, 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214B(w) > 5A > 2C > 236D > 6CC (or 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2C) > 236C > 214B > 22B is easier for us to use. 236D used to cause a side switch at times but now it's all good. 5CC > 236B > 214D > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 3133 DM and 21 HG 5CC > 623C > j.214B(w) > 5A > 2C > 236D > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B = 3120 DM and 22 HG 5CC > 623C > j.214B(w) > 5A > 2C > 236D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 3214 DM and 23 HG Of course if you used > 623C > j.214A(w) > 5C > 2C > 236D the combo will deal a little more damage, but we all know that's hard lol.
chzchan Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 236D used to cause a side switch at times but now it's all good. But the side switch actually comes in handy sometimes if you know what you are doing. They didn't remove side switch from some of the other special moves, right?
Airk Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 It still crosses up on ground hit. It just doesn't have the weird, unpredictable "oops your opponent somehow bounced backwards over your head" effect on airborne opponents mid combo.
chzchan Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 It still crosses up on ground hit. It just doesn't have the weird, unpredictable "oops your opponent somehow bounced backwards over your head" effect on airborne opponents mid combo. Oh, I thought that was only fixed for ground aura hits on airborne opponents. If only they could fix it for air aura hits on characters like Azrael. Every single time I do a combo that involves j.236D > j.214D on him, he flies backward and I can't follow up with 6C.
Kiba Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 But the side switch actually comes in handy sometimes if you know what you are doing. They didn't remove side switch from some of the other special moves, right? Don't believe so. Corner combo route with 2 charge - 6CC > j.236D > j.214D > 6A > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B = 5022. Will work out heat gain when I can. This combo doesn't work from 5C/5B CH > 6CC starter. Credits to Errol.
Errol Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Did they nerf the P2 of some moves? CH 5C > 6C > OD > Mugen > (421D > 236D)*2 > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 236236D (5 charges) = 8400~ dmg instead of 9100 in 1.0 there was a bit of talk about the new D DD doing less dmg, but when I had someone test the minimum damage was the same. but with that combo you don't hit minimum proration levels before the DD kicks in, only during the middle of the DD. nonetheless would be interested to know for sure if something changed. can't be 5c,6c,421d>236d. could be the D DP series or the D DD.
chzchan Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 could be the D DP series or the D DD. I remember proration values for airborne attacks were changed, but those were only the P1 values, right? That means the damage wouldn't change if used in a combo, so I don't think it would have affected anything. I really hope they didn't make that series worse because I don't want the j.236D > j.214D to deal even less damage than 421D > 236D currently does.
Kiba Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 421D > 236D stuffs 5BB > 421D > 236D > 6CC > j.CC(delay) > 5A/5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 3703/3873 DM, 26/27 HG. You can use 5BB > 5C if you want but that'll mean you have to use 5C > 2C. 5A > 2C won't work. 5BB > 421D > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A = 3819 DM, 27 HG 5CC > 421D > 236D > 6CC > j.CC(delay) > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 4624 DM, 33 HG 5CC > 421D > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A = 4561 DM, 32 HG 6A > 5C > 421D > 236D > 6CC > j.CC(delay) > 5A/5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 3716/3876 DM, 26/27 HG. 6A > 5C > 421D > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A = 3824 DM, 27 HG 6BB > 421D > 236D > 6CC > j.CC(delay) > 5A/5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 4342 DM, 31 HG. 6BB > 421D > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A = 4280 DM, 30 HG 6C > 421D > 236D > 214B > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A = 4864 DM, 34 HG 6C > 421D > 236D > 5CC > 623C > j.214A/B(w) > 5A > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B = 4545 DM, 32 HG - You'll have to use Dash 5A if you use j.214A(w) Or 6C > 421D > 236D > 6C > 236C > 214B > 22B [4611 DM] [33% HG] You can use the j.CC > j.236A > j.214A air enders for a little more damage although you sacrifice oki. Only really good against Tager. -Updated Combo thread up to 6C-
chzchan Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Just something I was trying out. Not sure if it is the most optimized. [2 Charge + 50%]5C CH > 6CC > Mugen > 214D > 421D(delay) > 236D > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [5822 DM] [29% HG] [2 Charge + 50%]5B CH > 6CC > Mugen > 214D > 421D(delay) > 236D > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [5324 DM] [29% HG] I really would consider this more of a crutch combo route if you don't input Mugen fast enough after 6C.
zaeris Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I but would doing 214d switch sides often is what I'm wondering
chzchan Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 214D does switch sides when you do it because of how far forward Tsubaki is moved when it is used, so you have to do the rest of the combo facing the other direction. I'm pretty sure it does that regardless of character, but I really have not tested this out on too many characters.
chzchan Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Aside from 3CC and the command grab as mentioned in the combo compilation, are there any other instances where a Rapid is worth it for combos? Outside all of those, I have only really found 236D ground hit to sort of get somewhere because of the 38 frames of stagger state hitstun. Not really sure if it is worth it, but it works. [1 Charge + 50%] 5BB > 5CC > 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214X [3186 DM] [15% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 6A > 5CC > 6BB > 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A/B [3248 DM] [17% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214X [3371 DM] [12% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 5B > 5CC > 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214X [3473 DM] [16% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 6BB > 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214X [3555 DM] [15% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 5CC > 236D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214X [3816 DM] [16% HG] 5C confirm seems to be the best as usual.
Airk Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 You can use RC to pick up a j.214D extension midscreen, I believe, so like:5B (Air hit) > j.B > jc > j.CC > j.214D > RC > 2B > StuffI've seen Kuresu doing something like that a couple of times, but didn't take notes since there are like 14 other combos I need to learn before I even think about this particular one.
Kiba Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Unfortunately none of those combos are worth the meter. I'm gonna go ahead and add this: [2 Charge] FC 3CC > 5C > 2C > 421D > 236D > 6CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4627 DM] [33% HG] - You can use > 5C > 421D > 236D instead but getting the 6CC to connect is unstable because the opponent could end up behind you.
chzchan Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Would it be better to go into Mugen after a 5CC confirm with 1 charge instead?
Kiba Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 To be more specific, yeah, it's better to go for the mugen combo over the 236D combos you posted. Personally I wouldn' use 1 charge mugen combos from 5CC. 4.6k is nice, but I prefer to use it in situations where I can get the 421D > 236D > 214D > 22D such as CH 5C > 6C. I'm gonna add this combo too: [2 charge + 50%] 63214C > RC > 2C > Delay 421D > 236D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3339 DM] [13% HG]
chzchan Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I saw that there wasn't a 2 charge 3CC Rapid combo in the compilation, so I tried. [2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [4950 DM] [21% HG] [2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [5035 DM] [22% HG] Land the j.236D as early as possible so all the air aura hits land. Damage may vary depending on if you hit the enemy with the j.236D projectile before the air aura or not. [2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > 421D(delay) > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214B [4768 DM] [21% HG] [2 Charge + 50%] 3CC > RC > 421D(delay) > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [4862 DM] [22% HG] Land the 421D as late as possible so all the ground aura hits land. 5B (Air hit) > j.B > jc > j.CC > j.214D > RC > 2B > Stuff I usually see him do this when he's going in for the kill or is pretty close to the corner. Personally I wouldn' use 1 charge mugen combos from 5CC. 4.6k is nice, but I prefer to use it in situations where I can get the 421D > 236D > 214D > 22D such as CH 5C > 6C. Would a point blank 6BB confirm into mugen be worth it? I'm trying to think of all of these non-CH combos because of how infrequent they are for me. [1 Charge + 50%] 6BB > Mugen > 421D > 236D > 214D > 22D(max) > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [5061 DM] [29% HG]
Airk Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Is it just me, or are the 236D (Air Hit) > 6C combos REALLY fidgety about where you hit your opponent with the initial 236D? It seems like there's a sweet spot with the character at about head level, and it's a LITTLE more generous if its a counterhit, but if the opponent is much lower than the 'sweet spot' they tech before 6C hits them? Should I just be confining myself to Air hit 236D > Dash 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B instead?
TheGreatReptar Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I just react to how high they are when 236D hits and go for 6C or dash 5C accordingly. You'll learn the required height once you see it enough
chzchan Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Oh also you can go straight into 6C if you RC out of 3C instead of 3CC. I think the results are okay. [50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 236C >214B > 22B [3458 DM] [10% HG] [50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [3572 DM] [12% HG] [50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214X [3670 DM] [12% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 214D > 22B(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214C [4148 DM] [15% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 236C > 214B > 22B [4245 DM] [14% HG] [1 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > 236D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214X [4333 DM] [14% HG] [2 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6CC > j.C > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC(delay) > 623C > j.236A > j.214A [4909 DM] [20% HG] [2 Charge + 50%] 3C > RC > 6C > 421D > 236D > 6CC(delay) > 623C > j.236A > j.214A [5126 DM] [16% HG] Gotta delay the second 6C because if they are too far off the ground they will tech before the followup hits.
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