[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Yazumatto]

Nope. She is still bottom tier. Goro is just a neutral game master. While everyone complains about the Litchi and Nu matchups, he boasts a 90% win rate against him.

[StarGazer]

Great for Goro! It's time people know Makoto is a dire threat in the right hands!

But that's true for every character in every game.

[Chaoschao222]

But that's true for every character in every game.

Poor Servbot.

[StarGazer]

I said character, not joke

[Solless]

So Makoto still is not too great in CP, yah? :< Bummer.

[Teutonicknight]

She's better, but just barely. I was a bit disappointed to hear that too, but at least now she may stand a better chance against the other characters.

[Wild Candy]

Makoto still has a few pros this time arounds that make her a lot more viable though.

Including some decent defensive options (Characters like Nu and Valkenhayn were hit by a bus with the new defensive and burst mechanics), one of the better damage outputs (Her damage output didn't get as nearly nerfed as some of the other characters) and her corner Okizeme in her corner Bnb's (Because her 5D has more untechable frames durring ground slide).

I guess what really cripples her is her specials tend to only get used in combos, she's very dependent on a strong fundamental skill for her neutral game, and her pokes short range and lack of priority when compared to characters like Haku-Men and Ragna.

[Teutonicknight]

And it doesn't help that a good deal of her specials now don't combo at all, unless something weird happens, or if you get a counter, and even then, extremely difficult to follow up. Having both short(est) range and near-useless/combo exclusive specials is a bit of a double-edged sword to me.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Teutonicknight

[Wild Candy]

So in other words, if you chose to use Makoto, your throwing away almost every sense of the word "Gimmick" mostly relying on your natural movement and normals to get around and start combos.

Thanks a lot ArcSys! We hit a wall in Extend, and you don't much to actually fix some of the handicaps we were given!

Oh well... I guess we can only play with the cards we were dealt so far, so lets make the best of em.

[HiagoX]

why do you all complain so much even you haven't touched the game lmao

most of her problems were fucking fixed in bbcp

[Bibiquadium]

Not really fixed but changed of place. At least she managed to get some oki back and her OD seems worthwhile if not extremely worthwhile and fun to play with.

[HiagoX]

?????

Drive got more untechable time; oki is now good again; midscreen damage is insanely good while]/b] retaining good corner carry; combo routes are now more stable and easier; OD allows her to deal stupid damage by using a lot of resources but in a much more viable way; OD also gives her corner-to-corner carry; proration values also buffed her overall damage.

Her normals are good/ok for the most part and there's more you can do with them now. New specials are okish like all of the other ones. Unless I'm missing something, the only blatant problem she (still) has is lack of tools to deal with matchups such as Taokaka but that wouldn't be as much of a problem if Tao wasn't strong like she is right now.

She's definitely not very strong compared to the higher tier characters but she's 100% ok right now and saying she's bottom tier is fucking stupid. Implying she sucks because you need a good use of fundamentals is just balls-to-the-wall levels of retarded.

EDIT: Oh yeah I forgot to mention that barrier pushing more works well for her now too because she can pressure with strings without commiting too hard and getting punished for using gimmicky options so that's a plus too.

Edited August 8, 2013 by HiagoX

[Bibiquadium]

I'm not complaining about the tier here, I played her through the entire Extend lifespan without saying her tier sucked or whatsoever, tier pretty much never existed to me anyway. I'm not like those who dropped her in Extend because she wasn't a dumb char anymore. A lack of tools is a lack of tools no matter how you see it and it isn't only Tao she has other if not many other bad matchups for the same reason. I never considered her damage a barrier, most people who did never bothered learning optimal combos to begin with.

[Teutonicknight]

I am just glad they made her a bit more dangerous this time around, but I still think she needs more tweaking. But at the very least, she is viable without being totally stupid, which I am okay with. Speak of which, why the hell is Tao so damn strong?? I've seen just from the CP videos that she is pretty much derp. I know Tao was already strong, but CP Tao takes the cake easily.

EDIT: Oh yeah I forgot to mention that barrier pushing more works well for her now too because she can pressure with strings without commiting too hard and getting punished for using gimmicky options so that's a plus too.

Ah, this is good news!

Edited August 8, 2013 by Teutonicknight

[Yazumatto]

why do you all complain so much even you haven't touched the game lmao

most of her problems were fucking fixed in bbcp

I can't grasp this concept either. It's always the same complaints too.

[swordsman09]

They must love Tao to keep making her stronger like this.

On topic though, I think Makoto will be fine in CP. I think that she has enough that she can handle herself.

[Teutonicknight]

It is looking better than it was at first. I remember when this thread first started, all I saw listed for Makoto was more nerfs, and I was shocked, lol

But now, things are looking up.

My only gripe right now is the gap between the upper-ranked fighters and everyone else outside of it. I don't usually go by tiers, but the people up at the top look leagues stronger than everyone, or can get exceedingly lucky off the OD system.

[swordsman09]

I think we need to look for, as the thread is titled, a new hope. Once CP comes out, everyone go to training mode and find all of the new tech you can possibly find. Maybe something good was missed. Probably not though...

[Teutonicknight]

Well that, and the console version has a slight possibility of being different. Most likely not, but there's definitely hope to be had.

It's a totally different game, so I don't mind there being some imbalance, so naturally, I'm going in for the fun. And of course Makoto, if she wasn't in the game, I wouldn't even bother, lol

[Wild Candy]

I guess everyone's right! CP's sort of Makoto rebirthed! I'm going to try and have fun with my favorite squirrel girl, and I'm not going to give a damn about the buffs other characters received, because it'll be even more rewarding to stick to your guns and knock out a top tier character with our underdog squirrel.

[Chaoschao222]

My only gripe right now is the gap between the upper-ranked fighters and everyone else outside of it. I don't usually go by tiers, but the people up at the top look leagues stronger than everyone, or can get exceedingly lucky off the OD system.

There have always been large gaps in tiers between the best vs the rest, but at least "the rest" is for the most part viable now, Makoto being no exception.

[swordsman09]

There have always been large gaps in tiers between the best vs the rest, but at least "the rest" is for the most part viable now, Makoto being no exception.

I feel bad for Izayoi.

Is she really that bad?

[Yazumatto]

Makoto players are so weird. >.>

[Wild Candy]

Makoto players are so weird. >.>

Just a little bit!

[Teutonicknight]

I feel bad for Izayoi.

Is she really that bad?

This keeps getting me too... There has to be a lot of people trying her out, and she hasn't even budged a bit on all lists I've seen. If Izayoi is really that bad, I feel sorry for this character! D:

She could have untapped potential, but she's been out for awhile now.