[CP] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion (Changelog in OP)

[JG]

So with the looming JP release of CP, I'd like to know how many of you guys plan to import CP.

Provided that nothing extraordinary happens, I'll probably import a copy and mess around in the lab. Some of you guys are a lot more creative w/training mode than I am so I'd imagine we could find more tech w/those guys importing as well. That said, I'm not trying to pressure anyone to import especially those short on cash or time to play to CP.

Those guys can have fun waiting six months though.

Me me me me! i actually preorder it already >_<, so i hope that i can learn the new stuff and find more things... that way i can do a combovideo xD.

If i find something op when i have the copy, i will share it here... Like i always do = ).

[Raiza57]

Shiro also pre ordered his copy

"Like always anything I learn I will keep to myself and call the rest of you free for not doing it."

#Triple fermata combos for the win

<3 Shiro

[Psykotik]

Me me me me! i actually preorder it already >_<, so i hope that i can learn the new stuff and find more things... that way i can do a combovideo xD.

If i find something op when i have the copy, i will share it here... Like i always do = ).

<3

Shiro also pre ordered his copy

"Like always anything I learn I will keep to myself and call the rest of you free for not doing it."

#Triple fermata combos for the win

<3 Shiro

Why do triple fermatas when you can do double fermata + Val tedo. Stay free

Real talk, thanks to the new time based scaling system, it might be realllllly hard to get a triple fermata combo since a fermata hit consumes so much time. A fatal 2C will probably be necessary if such a thing is possible. "Safest" one I can think of is fatal 2C, fermata, 3C, fermata, 3C fermata. No idea if it'll actually work though lol.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Psykotik

[Raiza57]

Since you cannot combo off of Fermata in CP I might as well give the combos out....

~Teleport Trimata combo

CH 3c(22D)>Iad j2c_allecan>2c>Fermata>charged 6D(2D)>J2c(Do not allecan)>2D>j2c-allecan>5c>brio>Jb>Jb>jc>Volante>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D>Fermata>j2c>allegreto>8D>fermata

~Corner WOCN

CH 3c>fermata>Charged 6c(2D)>j2c allecan>2D>j2c>allegreto>volante>j2c>allegreto>brio>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D>fermata>j2c>allegreto>8D>fermata

~Burst Trimata combo midscreen

CH 3c(22D)>Iad j2c_allecan>2c>Fermata>burst>(burst>)fermata>charged 6D(2D)>J2c(Do not allecan)>2D>j2c-allecan>5c>brio>Jb>Jb>jc>Volante>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D>Fermata>j2c>allegreto>8D

~Burst Trimata combo Corner

CH 3c>Burst>fermata>Burst>fermata>Charged 6c(2D)>j2c allecan>2D>j2c>allegreto>volante>j2c>allegreto>brio>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D>fermata>j2c>allegreto>8D

~Alt Burst Tri-mata combo

CH 3c>Burst>Burst>fermata>Charged 6c(2D)>j2c_allecan>2D>j2c>allegreto>volante>j2c>allegreto>brio>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D>fermata>j2c>allegreto>8D

PS~Using Fatal 2C will net you less damage than 3c.... Our fatal is shit tier....

[TD]

what purpose does this OD only vol tedo serve. does it have the standard invul frames + higher max damage? or some other properties.

[Psykotik]

Damage is the main reason Val Tedo is used; it has ~1700 min damage. It does have invincibility frames though so should you be stuck in a sticky situation, you can use it as a (rather unsafe) reversal. That said, you probably screwed up somehow if you activated OD on your own terms and still managed to get yourself in a fix...

As for the OD itself, I see a lot of Carls use it just for Val Tedo as an ender. His OD has a lot of other effects though (faster Nirvana health recovery, Nirvana buffs). I feel a feeling that there's still much to be discovered with Carl's OD.

[sinder]

So with the looming JP release of CP, I'd like to know how many of you guys plan to import CP.

Provided that nothing extraordinary happens, I'll probably import a copy and mess around in the lab. Some of you guys are a lot more creative w/training mode than I am so I'd imagine we could find more tech w/those guys importing as well. That said, I'm not trying to pressure anyone to import especially those short on cash or time to play to CP.

Those guys can have fun waiting six months though.

i'm importing

it's good to see JG and Shiro as well since they can do all the lab work while I actually look at some of these match-up strategies. Azrael looks like he is going to be tough if you fight a decent one

just waiting for a room assignment to ship a copy to...

[sinder]

if you weaboos see a FR from dreadmaniac accept because that's me

apparently i wasn't allowed tp upgrade to v2.0 though...

[Akanishi]

I wonder how bad is the Carl vs. Hakumen matchup now. CP Hakumen is just ridiculous with his comeback potential.

[Raiza57]

"The matchup should actually be a tad bit better for us. Yes Haku-mens OD damage is very scary, however he requires a burst to do so. Haku-mens average damage and max damage was nerfed in the next installment. He needs more magatama for his damaging combos now. In Ex he can get 4-5k with 2 magatama from a 5c starter, now he needs way more to get that 5k. His new CP loop looking combos dont do as much damage in retrospect to his EX combos. Overall his damage was nerfed, not only that but as we all know his counters are blockable now and -15 on block. The only threatening thing about Haku-men is his zoning/spacing (Which he has always had), and his run back from OD.

A single crossup from Carl=5k 0heat. Whether it be crossup Anima, La Tenerraza, Volante or 4D they all setup for 5k combos. I honestly do not believe Haku-men can win without using a burst. IMO this matchup is far easier now that we can do mixup on this guy. An wont have to worry about him turning around to grab us with 5D.

All in all His damage was nerfed, counter were nerfed, everything else remains the same. This matchup has no choice but to be easier, but thats just my opinion & logic. If everything is easier, then how can the matchup have gotten worse."

~Shiro

[Wander]

In Ex he can get 4-5k with 2 magatama from a 5c starter

~Shiro

I think you mean 4-5k with 3 stars.

[Dreize]

Well, technically he can get 4k off of a 5C starter in the corner with 2 magatama. 5k seems a bit overboard, though.

[Raiza57]

Well, technically he can get 4k off of a 5C starter in the corner with 2 magatama. 5k seems a bit overboard, though.

Indeed, just me over exaggerating a bit.

[sinder]

Mu match up is more worrisome

Burst rule still applies (but she doesn't need Over Drive at all)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMYtrFGWEY

This looks like it is going to be a pain in the ass. I'm honestly going to say that this is by far Carl's worst match up in the game, a solid 7-3

but only a month until I can say 8-2......

[Raiza57]

Mu match up is more worrisome

Burst rule still applies (but she doesn't need Over Drive at all)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMYtrFGWEY

This looks like it is going to be a pain in the ass. I'm honestly going to say that this is by far Carl's worst match up in the game, a solid 7-3

but only a month until I can say 8-2......

Indeed this matchup is still very annoying, it is still better for us. Mu-12's Dp was nerfed harder than CT rachel. If you do a meaty 5c you can jump cancel and block her Dp. The move has auto guard on frame 1, but the attack isnt active until the 8th frame. Which is more than enough time to block this hoe. So we no longer have to use Ada to do meatys on this character. Making an OS bait should be easy.

Example:

~Dp bait 5c>jump back to evade the Dp>6D/tennerezan get a CH hit> IAD> Jb>jc> insert combo

~roll bait 5C>jump back>6D/Tennerezan combo hit>Iad> j2c allecan>insert combo

Remember that if they try to roll your 5c>6D/tenerezan will take their air hit effects because they are in the air if they roll, which is why the j2c combos. Also even if she has heat to RC she cannont, RC only works if you hit something. It doesnt matter if something hits you. In this case we hit her auto-guard, however she doesnt hit us. Therefor she cannot RC, leaving her open. Which is why I say to jump back, it will be slightly difficult to time but its worth it.

So all in all, even though it still seems annoying.. thats normal. Her damage was nerfed overall so that is a plus for us. Along with her Dp nerf... An we have Tenerezan which makes zoning even harder for her. So yea its still a hard match up... But it is still easier that it was before. Remember, only Tao, Carl, Noel, Arakune, and lambda maybe? IIRC can get 5k with 0heat from a standard non-CH attack.

Its called the 5k an over club, and we in there.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Raiza57

[sinder]

The move has auto guard on frame 1, but the attack isnt active until the 8th frame.

really? that's actually news i didn't expect

if that's the case then the it's just her zoning' that's where I'm going to say that she is still a boss (even with Tenerezan **which needs a new nickname btw**) because a SMART mu player will know that there are many things that will make this MU more in her favor

here's a run down on why it isn't necessairly better for us

-her backdash

-lasers

-damage didn't get nerfed to the point that makes getting hit less troublesome

-OKI!!!

she is definitely more dangerous in her zoning process this go around, and did I mention she can combo with her back throw now without Rapid canceling (no more vivace mix up to make her waste heat)

I agree with you on CON though, as things are much easier for use when she is cornered or sandwiched because her reversal options aren't as good without that gdlk DP she had (her CA is ass regardless of what anybody says). Get ready to have those burst Option selects though!

not only will the bitch zone you, she will troll. A smart MU player will zone until ADA's health is 75% gone. By that time she should have enough gunners on the field to lock you down, and she will have great momentum in the neutral aspect of the fight, which makes it difficult for Carl to chase her down. Mu players want you to burn Ada meter with tenerezan and with the way the blazblue community moves it;'s only a matter of time before they find a perfect bait for that, and continue to hit her to deplete her meter quicker.

With that being said i'll hold off on any more discussion for her until the game is accessible to me. Even with her health change and the DP nerf, she is still in that "cat and mouse" category that Carl really struggles with, so I'm going to say the match up is only "easier" if we have enough offensive momentum (and Ada meter to keep that momentum...... but that's a whole different story )

Next Episode Sometime ~October 24-November 11

Edited September 13, 2013 by sinder

[Nemesis]

she can combo with her back throw now without Rapid canceling (no more vivace mix up to make her waste heat)

im sorry... when did Mu ever need to RC on grab aside from air grab?

A smart MU player will zone until ADA's health is 75% gone.

I must be the dumbest Mu player I know then... lol zone carl...

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah, I think Hakumen will be having more trouble.

People only see his max damage output and forget that his average damage tanked, and his counters got nerfed (blockable, range got nerfed, minus on block, 6D no longer f1 so he can't counter overheads without Yukikaze). He was actually going to be screwed if that OD stuff wasn't discovered.

So it will be the same story. Both will be positioning and spacing, if Haku gets you alone, you are dead, but if you put him between the doll then he's going to have a harder time getting out.

[sinder]

im sorry... when did Mu ever need to RC on grab aside from air grab?

I must be the dumbest Mu player I know then... lol zone carl...

1st part is woops, I forgot that is her uncomboable throw

o really, because every time I played you I don't think I ever put you in CON more than once

AND

you laser spammed my ass pretty bad. You never went in, ever

that's how I remember our games because it was like some maze playing with you

I don't remember any Mu player rushing to me unless Ada died, so please edify the players here on why you think zoning Carl is lol because i'll change my whole post if zoning is a joke from a Mu players perspective

Edited September 13, 2013 by sinder

[Raiza57]

really? that's actually news i didn't expect

she is definitely more dangerous in her zoning process this go around, and did I mention she can combo with her back throw now without Rapid canceling (no more vivace mix up to make her waste heat)

With that being said i'll hold off on any more discussion for her until the game is accessible to me. Even with her health change and the DP nerf, she is still in that "cat and mouse" category that Carl really struggles with, so I'm going to say the match up is only "easier" if we have enough offensive momentum (and Ada meter to keep that momentum...... but that's a whole different story )

Next Episode Sometime ~October 24-November 11

Mu-12's zoning was also nerfed, she has more recovery from her 236D, sparkly ball was buffed but that has never really been an issue for us and 214D was also nerfed. I didnt know her max HP was nerfed, so that is news to me. But she was nerfed is multiple ways, the bitch was a god so even with all the nerfs she took she is still very much annoying to fight.

But couple her zoning nerfs, with her damage nerfs, with her Dp nerf and our anti zoning buff, with the addition of OD we can turn a lot of our combos into unburstable combo's; once OD runs out, your burst meter starts at 25% instead of 0, which makes this entire fight much more easier. Bursting is something that is semi useless in this match up. Because we spend so much time chasing this bitch, why would you ever want to burst just to send her flying away again. With OD we can make each hitconfirm count and get the HP lead. Which will force her to come to us, making our overall job way easier. She can spam all the D's she wants to, they do almost no chip so just block it. Im honestly not to much concerned about this matchup either. Her normals and zoning are strong, but they arnt as scary as they are in EX.

Ada's health starts regenerating faster in CP, I think its 110f instead of 119f iirc. But in OD it takes 40f before she starts recovering. Which is why I will be going OD not for the Damage, but to keep my Ada HP nice and high.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Raiza57

[Psykotik]

So I decided that I'm going to start a little project for CP: that is, make a brief tutorial video that could potentially expand into a mini-series (free time pending) for Carl. I kind of realized in the past few days that Carl's been lacking these kind of resources since CT; considering that Carl is a rather advanced character, this sounds a bit backwards to me when you realize that other characters in BB, whom are more basic than Carl, have these kind of resources available to them so I'm going to try to rectify this.

My first video will be a very brief beginner's video that quickly goes over Carl's gameplan in neutral, offense and defense. Any thoughts on what should be covered on it? Keep in mind that this first video is intended for people who are absolutely new to Carl so these are things that you guys should already know lol.

[NecroTheReaper]

Hmm... well, I do notice people new to Carl tend to overuse Fuoco at neutral waaaay too much. I'd say just to encourage use of Adas more basic moves. May just be a personal thing to me, but I really don't like usin fuoco outside of oki... ever lol

[someonewhodied]

honestly focus on outlining carl's neutral game and defensive options. Most carls I see, and myself always run into large meaty attacks that hit the doll and we airdash into extended frames. Or we 236B into lows in neutral, or lots of stupid things like that.

[NecroTheReaper]

I'll admit to vivacing on wakeup... bad me. Dont do that.

[someonewhodied]

Yup, its a terrible habit. If you ever want an easy 3C counter against Carl, just 3C the doll and watch a vivace give you a CH. Hazama players, please don't start doing this