[CP] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion (Changelog in OP)

[Pen_Ninja]

We discussed this a bit in the loketest thread

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8980-cp2-carl-loketest-discussion/?p=856362

 

Now that 3D is a low and doesn't knock down, the chance of unblockable loops is possibly real.

We'll have to see.

[someonewhodied]

heres a fun tool you all can play with:

 

(.....)>5C(pickup)>9j.BC~delay623D

 

if they reject the throw, 623D meatys them in the air. If they don't reject the throw just do it again. if they are out of barrier its game no matter what they do. You get really nice damage midscreen off of 623D starter if you are ready to pick it up. 623D has to be inputed before they throw reject though.

 

 

623D>sj.B>dj.B>j.C>421D>5C>j.C>46D>5C>j.B>dj.B>j.C>8D>3C>214214D

 

and corner

 

623D>665C>9j.B>j.214C>4D(2nd only)>6C lv2>665C>sj.B>j.2C(input 421D here)>j.B>dj.B>j.C>(orb hits)>5C>8D>3C>214214D

 

if they barrier, blockstun is enough that if you have 50 meter you can do 665C>236236D>mixup

[Reki]

I'm having difficulty understanding why 22D is so woonky. It doesn't come out consistently contrary to how easy it is to do on paper.

 

Is there a secret to inputting it consistently while doing 623C or ending juggles with C?

[Pen_Ninja]

I think the problem is the negative edge input plus the way 22X works in this game PLUS all the other stuff you need to do after it.

 

My theory is that because it's negative edge, it's harder to get ]D[ right after 22 than it is to get [D] right after 22. That on top of the way this game is picky with 22 inputs... if you do 23X or 21X it won't work and I think if you do 223X or 221X it won't work either... meaning if you don't hit ]D[ right after 22, you risk hitting a 1 or 3 right after and messing up the input.

 

All this goes together with the fact that you're doing so much stuff with Carl that there's often no time to stop and wait to make sure the 22]D[ input actually happened properly before you need to start inputting something else.

[Reki]

I think the problem is the negative edge input plus the way 22X works in this game PLUS all the other stuff you need to do after it.

My theory is that because it's negative edge, it's harder to get ]D[ right after 22 than it is to get [D] right after 22. That on top of the way this game is picky with 22 inputs... if you do 23X or 21X it won't work and I think if you do 223X or 221X it won't work either... meaning if you don't hit ]D[ right after 22, you risk hitting a 1 or 3 right after and messing up the input.

All this goes together with the fact that you're doing so much stuff with Carl that there's often no time to stop and wait to make sure the 22]D[ input actually happened properly before you need to start inputting something else.

Thanks for the explanation. I'll make sure from now on to make my 22s as spot on as possible. I just talked with my buddy and he seems to have the same problem with jin but he uses a pad.

Some more questions:

1) after a successful 623C > 22D > 236A, what's a good meaty to use considering that the opponent might do a wakeup backdash?

2) I'vebeen reading some posts that wakeup rolling is almost never advisable due to option selects. What's a practical OS that carl can use assuming that the opponent is intending to roll behind her to escape the corner?

3) Is it possible to get a fully charged 6C while confuco is going on? I think I saw some jp carls doing this but I can't seem to get this done because the opponent mashes A on wakeup before or after confuco is blocked

Thanks to everyone here so far. It was a grindy month for me struggling to move from pad to stick and manipulating neesan's fat ass from one corner to the other. I guess I can start uploading some vids of me being retarded in certain matchups hoping to pick up some good ideas.

[sinder]

haven't seen a Carl video that is... good

 

 

I guess everybody really did leave him. Since School is almost over for me, I can probably keep track of the video thread

 

But like I said earlier, the fights aren't as entertaining...

[someonewhodied]

6C unblock in corner:

 

6C(max)>CT>623D>5C>j.C>46D>5C>j.B>j.2C>j.C>8D>3C>214214D

 

6550 damage, 75 meter.

 

 

 

If you are facing someone who normal blocks, not barrier on wakeup, here is a fun gimmick:

 

Ada-Carl-Opponent setup:

 

X>623C [D]>delay6~ 421]D[>236B

 

if they wake up and block backwards: they don't move, You cross them up with orb

if they wake up and block forwards: they move forward causing orb to hit sooner, before you cross them up, you hit them with orb

if they wake up and DP: you get to go through their DP, orb hits them. 

 

Obviously they can just not tech since orb won't pick people up off the floor. But its a fun gimmick regardless.

 

Or if they neutral tech, they can do 1AB~3AB to OS the shit out of this crossup.

[elevate07]

First time posting here. Really appreciate all the Carl tips you guys post. I have a problem with pinning down high mobility characters. In particular guys like Arakune and Tao are very difficult for me to catch. I try to threaten with Brio and 8D but they can change their air trajectory so many times in one jump that it makes them difficult to predict and usually results in them bypassing Ada and being forced to take the pressure game. Or with guys like Mu they can just play the keep away while I'm forced to use Ada as a shield until I can maybe close the gap. I'm absolutely certain it's something I'm doing wrong, I just don't have the experience to know what it is yet. If anyone could give some tips or at least point me in the right direction I'd greatly appreciate it.

[wiredgod]

First time posting here. Really appreciate all the Carl tips you guys post. I have a problem with pinning down high mobility characters. In particular guys like Arakune and Tao are very difficult for me to catch. I try to threaten with Brio and 8D but they can change their air trajectory so many times in one jump that it makes them difficult to predict and usually results in them bypassing Ada and being forced to take the pressure game. Or with guys like Mu they can just play the keep away while I'm forced to use Ada as a shield until I can maybe close the gap. I'm absolutely certain it's something I'm doing wrong, I just don't have the experience to know what it is yet. If anyone could give some tips or at least point me in the right direction I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

There's really no simple answer for this.  Tao and valk are definitely hard to pin down.  Keep using brio though.  Even if it whiffs, it will hopefully condition them to fear that move.  I don't know the arakune matchup well at all, but I would think volante could be useful for getting in.  Mu and lambda are really frustrating in neutral and its hard to get around that.  What you hope for in all these matchups is to somewhere get a knockdown and then ride carl's awesome offensive abilities to victory.  Even the best Carl players find these matchups hard or exhausting to pull out a victory.

[sinder]

  I don't know the arakune matchup well at all, but I would think volante could be useful for getting in.

 

That's actually making it easier for the player to get out

 

I used to hate this MU as well, but 2B works extremely well in sandwiches (lol). Your best bets for this MU are brio and 8D. Volante uses too much meter and he can easily avoid it. I also go for air throws as well if they are jump happy. If you're cursed wait for the inevitable low attack after they use C Bug and do not block low before that bug comes out or you're going to eat a UB setup, then Vivace A out of it.

 

The true annoyance comes into play when you're cursed in a corner and the Arakune uses a low attack AND C bug, which is a huge burst bait setup. Can't really avoid that as its one of Ara's gimmicky traps :/

[Psykotik]

https://youtu.be/Lwv7r15-QUU?t=2m3s

 

5k off 5B for 25 meter and ends in oki.

 

Looks like shota shorts are still in season 

[someonewhodied]

Looks like that really pushes the combo timer to the end. 3C got instateched. 

[Psykotik]

That was actually a 5C which probably blue beated because Tsubaki hit the ground.

I also noticed in some vids it looks like you can do the j.C 5A rejump with other routes like air hit 5C, jump, delay j.B, j.C, land, 5A, 5B. Looks like the new j.C makes it easy to do confirms like that on the spot.

[sinder]

I also noticed in some vids it looks like you can do the j.C 5A rejump with other routes like air hit 5C, jump, delay j.B, j.C, land, 5A, 5B. Looks like the new j.C makes it easy to do confirms like that on the spot.

 

Glad you picked this up because I was literally about to make a post where I think it's time for a new combo thread. Some of these combs are things I would have never even thought of doing if I hadn't seen them online

 

Don't know if the challenge mode will include these things this time around, but we'll find out tomorrow

[Psykotik]

Done, I'll update the OP of the new thread with new BnBs some time after the game drops.

[Zoular]

j.C > 5A confirmation:
https://youtu.be/GW4rnIJSIPM?t=16m45s
https://youtu.be/GW4rnIJSIPM?t=23m43s

[Zoular]

So Carl's 6C full charge isn't unblockable however it breaks guard?
https://youtu.be/xuIgU4kkfco?t=28m24s
This wasn't mentioned was it?

[Pen_Ninja]

Quick question:
Allecan doesn't work on block now... is that new?

[sinder]

Quick question:

Allecan doesn't work on block now... is that new?

This was picked up in the beginning

It's really bad too ;_;. Too scared to even use it anymore

[Zephyrion22]

At least it is somewhat safe when used as a cross-up because of how far you bounce and still allows you to confirm from fuzzy overheads (which are a lot more scarce, thanks for the new 2D guys)

It is still a good tool, you just can't throw it on a whim anymore.

[sinder]

^One of its other main uses was to get back into CON again. You now need to use it in combos to do it successfully or pray that the opponent doesn't block the mix up.

This, along with the 6D change makes him rely on tenrezza now for CON resets, which is great, but I am going to say that the allecan change is not good

On a side note, I didn't realize j.C>5A combos would be so annoying to use in a real match

I only have this simple combo: CT>j.2C>j.B>j.C>5A>*stuff*

and even then the timing is tight for some reason. Anybody have reliable routes for this? Can't really dissect Carl combos until tomorrow night

[Zephyrion22]

You have an universal route in the corner : stuff >2C>dash 2B>6A>delay jB>jC>5A>air ender. you can also use the delay jB>jC it with Volante midscreen if you time it so that the projectile hits as late as possible. While these routes are harder, they are completely universal !

 

and yeah, the j2C change is really bad, I just meant that the move is still somewhat useful, but it clearly took a big hit.

[sinder]

You have an universal route in the corner : stuff >2C>dash 2B>6A>delay jB>jC>5A>air ender. you can also use the delay jB>jC it with Volante midscreen if you time it so that the projectile hits as late as possible. While these routes are harder, they are completely universal !

 

Hmmm

 

Well I'll have to work out something with volante then since that is the most common time (other than Crush Trigger) where I will use the combo. Trying to see if there is a practical use for this thing, or if it is just something that "just works" if you know what I mean. Right now it looks like it's the latter

 

Thanks though!

[JyakotuKurayami]

With my limited time spent with CP Extend, I actually walked away feeling a bit better knowing that I can still Carl Clover. Did he get hit with some nerfs? Yes. However, I can still use him effectively and some of the buffs he got really helped his game. Still my main and I still love playing the character. Easily still the best puppet character that Arc Sys has developed and it's such a shame that they can't emulate this style of puppeteer again.

[someonewhodied]

yo did carl 236B lose projectile invul or mid invul?