00Bubbles00 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 No it's not. People with more questions feel free to ask. I got to say, j2C is truly useless then. No reason it use it over jB or jC.
Litherain-XIII Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 i say its still a somewhat viable option due to its range if you dont wanna send your hurtbox in too deeply with j.C where its easy to AA it majority of the time. the only problem is that you may need 50 heat to follow up. if it whiffs atleast you can still air dash back for safety even on block. its up to you just saying.
Alpha152 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 @DarkSuperShadow My bad I assumed you meant using TK RB as a starter And I wouldn't call j.2C truly useless considering it's her only air tool for reliable hard-knockdown. Also, here's some cool things about j.2C: - Can't air-dash after RB > j.2C unless RC'd, even if you didn't use your air options before hand (you have no options after RB > j.2C until you reach the ground) - You can air-dash after j.2C but the recovery until you can air-dash is a little long (i.e. if you did 6A > 6C > j.2C you would be too low to the ground to air-dash afterwards) - j.2C on a grounded opponent (CH or non-CH) doesn't cause hard knockdown - You can follow up j.2C with Thor but not RB > j.2C > Thor (j.2C can be cancelled into j.D/j.4D, RB, Thor, and OD) - The height restriction for rising j.2C is pretty high, fastest start-up is about as high as Litchi's head on standing - Noel now has a legitimate fuzzy guard follow up with j.2C though it's combo route is limited and needs 50 meter (i.e. 5A > FG j.A > j.2C > OD > Thor > air dash > stuff)
00Bubbles00 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Oh I take that back. If you can j4D after j2C, that can be tricky. Thanks for the info Alpha! I'm still hoping a 6B starter 5k meterless combo is possible midscreen with some mix n' match of moves.... =( Edited January 30, 2013 by 00Bubbles00
TrueGunnerShadow Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 @DarkSuperShadow My bad I assumed you meant using TK RB as a starter When I first asked the question, yeah I meant as a starter but I forgot to mention as a Counter Hit. The video demonstration was not the answer to my question although I did learn something new from that video. Well, Yeah, My question already answered. Thanks. Also, nice list on j.2C. I got some stuff in my head about j.2C but I think its just crap. I guess I have to wait till I touch BBCP.
LunaKage Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Oh I take that back. If you can j4D after j2C, that can be tricky. Thanks for the info Alpha! I'm still hoping a 6B starter 5k meterless combo is possible midscreen with some mix n' match of moves.... =( We still get about 3.2 or 3.5 midscreen. Don't be so greedy lol
00Bubbles00 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 But it would be great to smash top tier characters with!
00Bubbles00 Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 Here is the 6B starter "5k meterless" midscreen done on Jin, though a DD was used at the end. The first time I've seen it actually done in a match vid. http://youtu.be/meKAryn2niI?t=15m53s
Litherain-XIII Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Ok i had a chat with delta these are some notes from his testing in CP: 5A > 6A doesnt work anymore. The new route seems to be 5A > 5B > 6A for a 5A hit-confirm. Not that bad to adjust to other than perhaps 5A > 2B > 6A 2A is no longer Jump cancellable. 6C first hit, wierd timing though, around the startup of the 2nd hit its not jump cancellable. 6A > 2B gatling does not work or exist. Response to the 22B~C dash cancel feeling: Once you get used to it, not bad. I'd say its more stricter but as long as you don't input it too early after a 3C its kind of the same. To do 22B~C you actually have to hold down B then hit C much different then CSE. I'd say its not worth using 22B~C anymore just because the follow up afterwards can get messed up from spacing. Using 22B~C from a point blank 3C could still mess up your spacing. And from far away, using 22B~C will almost always be too far away to follow up its like CS1 actually. I'm sure you can pick up 5B from most spacings but on some characters the follow up j.C can whiff because they're too far. Definitely 5B over 2A to pick up the combo after the dash cancel. Most times 2A > 6C will be no good compared to 5B > 5C. Response regarding Chamber Shot and its recovery: Pretty good, off random confirms midscreen you get at least 1.5k. Its unsafe but the pushback makes it safe. If the attack whiffs, the recovery by comparison I'd say its about as long as Optic Barrel maybe slightly faster. Response on opinion about CP Noel compared to the EX version: Very different. 4D mash is still good but just the overall pace of the game makes her different pushback on blockstrings is much higher, she's more neutral oriented. Edited February 1, 2013 by Litherain-XIII
Alpha152 Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I can make a complete note list of all the things I learned, but a lot of it has to deal with what most players don't seem interested in learning. Maybe somebody will learn something
LunaKage Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I can make a complete note list of all the things I learned, but a lot of it has to deal with what most players don't seem interested in learning. Maybe somebody will learn something Go for it, I like to be as educated as possible on my character before I actually get my hands on her, so I'll appreciate any kind of info, even weird stuff that wouldn't matter like "Optic Barrel B does 10 more damage on Arakune when the number 6 is on the timer"
Alpha152 Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 Stuff already mentioned: - 2A is no longer jump cancellable - d.6A floats on grounded opponent - 2D > d.5A is about a 4~5F gap on normal block, meaning you can more safely apply drive pressure compared to CSE where 2D > d.5A was around an 8F+ gap - You can kara throw with 5D again, although the range isn't as good as CS1 - 4D does not have foot invuln, only body and projectile. I'm assuming attacks like Jin's 2D and Haku's 5C attributes have changed since they used to have foot attribute but are now getting beat by 4D - 2C's SD is +1~0, couldn't get definite results even after like 20 tries but definitely not more than +1 - 2C > 3C on crouching hit doesn't work on prorated starters and is generally not preferable compared to 5C > 3C, which always works - MF > 2B > 6C > 6B > 22C works on (presumably) everyone, tested on about 8 characters with different heights/hitboxes - CT range is between 2A/5B range, and the start up is a little slower than CSE 5D, maybe around 28-32F - You can still air buffer into drive - 6C(2) untech time is about the same as CSE - Can't 6A > 6C > throw whiff > 6C, but you can throw whiff > 5A > 6C, similar to CSE. Not sure what was changed in the first place (throw recovery?) but it's about the same - OB start-up seems unchanged and other normal attacks generally seem the same - Not sure exactly but j.C seems stronger, either faster start up or better hitbox. As an air-to-air attacks it's much better now - CS recovery is too slow to dash up and meaty 5B/5C, 2A range isn't long enough to use either, maybe 5D? - Only certain follow ups into d.5B seem to make the second hit connect; d.6A, d.2D, and d.5C work. d.6D and d.6B do not work - Comboing into j.2C without RB off random air confirms is unstable and is really height dependant, though stuff like 6A > 6C > j.2C works and is actually preferred off prorated combos where RB > j.2C doesn't connect. - 4D can still be used as a situational AA, it was beating/trading with Noel's j.D pretty often
LunaKage Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 See all that stuff is great info, who wouldn't wanna know stuff like that? A few things I already noticed due to videos (Like the second hit of d.5B, and most Noels using 5C > 3C instead of 2C > 3C for example), but I'm curious, in what situation would you use 2D > d.5A in a block string? Are we talking about throwing it out at neutral? Or have you found a way to actually use that move during pressure? Because the thing LOOKS like it would travel way too far to be useful in that kind of situation.
00Bubbles00 Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) 2D>d5A... is good to close in on zoners like Nu and Hazama, timed well between their D spamming. I wonder can you go 2D>d5A>d5B?>d5C>d6C>214A>.... on standing opponent.... haven't seen it yet. Does d5B on standing knock back/wall bounce? Edited February 2, 2013 by 00Bubbles00
Alpha152 Posted February 2, 2013 Posted February 2, 2013 I used 2D > d.5A as a basis for how big of a frame gap there was between 2D and her fastest drive follow up (mostly assuming d.5A still is her fastest follow up), then from there you can gauge how big the gap is between a more common block string such as 2D > d.6B etc. More importantly it would be used as a near gap-less (aside reversals) blockstring, unlike CSE where 2D > d.5A can be interrupted by Noel's 6C CH. I would assume it would be used at neutral...or random mash And d.5B on a grounded opponent is the same as CSE.
Surf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Why do 99% of JP Noels play like chicken without their heads. Are their any notable Noels other than R-1 right now
TrueGunnerShadow Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Why do 99% of JP Noels play like chicken without their heads. Are their any notable Noels other than R-1 right now Some people always play with Caution. You can't expect them to rushdown and mash random predictable stuff. That Noel user will lose faster then a big dude in a marathon. Guarantee!!!
LunaKage Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Some people always play with Caution. You can't expect them to rushdown and mash random predictable stuff. That Noel user will lose faster then a big dude in a marathon. Guarantee!!! He said "Chicken without their heads" not "chicken" He means they always play like they are fucking bonkers and have no rhyme or reason to their actions.
00Bubbles00 Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Bad habits that stick because they sometimes pay off I guess? Like random whiffed 4D's, subsequent drive block strings and crazy AT's all over the place? On another topic, the 22B drive finisher > "oki" seems to be paying off for some people. Once people get the timing right it could be fearsome.
TrueGunnerShadow Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 He said "Chicken without their heads" not "chicken" He means they always play like they are fucking bonkers and have no rhyme or reason to their actions. Leave it to me for misreading people comments. My bad.
Demon Wind Bomb Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Are their any notable Noels other than R-1 right now I really like watching R-2 and Takeyama. Hell I haven't seen R-1 play in a little while.
Surf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 He said "Chicken without their heads" not "chicken" He means they always play like they are fucking bonkers and have no rhyme or reason to their actions. Yes. It makes it a bit hard to take note of some tech because of how they play
LunaKage Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 When taking notes, it's better to ignore how those types play overall, and instead focus on what they did in certain situations that worked, or maybe what combo routes/finishers they used if they are on the ball in that field. Most of the "Random Mashy Noel" players are doing it for a reason, and I usually see it happen at neutral where Noel has to rely on her movement speed to get shit done. Though it's not the way I like, you can still learn something from those types of players.
Surf Posted February 4, 2013 Posted February 4, 2013 Right now I'm just looking at the combo routes or other things that may happen. Not the players persay Other than DWB saying Takeyama, who are the other good Noels would you say you've seen Luna.
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