[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[rraawwrr]

Is there a skype channel for mu players? If so, could I get an invite at bobofjoe (bobofjoe@gmail.com)? :3

[Monarch]

Regarding this combo: - 6b > 6c > SoD > 66a > 5c > 2c > sj.2c > j.5d > 2b > 5c > 2c > j.c > j.2c

So I can't repeat another sj.2c at all?

[C0R]

Regarding this combo: - 6b > 6c > SoD > 66a > 5c > 2c > sj.2c > j.5d > 2b > 5c > 2c > j.c > j.2c

So I can't repeat another sj.2c at all?

Out of combo time. Blame Cp.

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, with 6B starter you only get enough combo time for one sj2C before ending with jC > j2C.

 

EDIT: ninja'd

[Monarch]

I figured as much, but I just didn't see much of a difference in timing. That's kind of strict..

Also, what's the most optimal Midscreen tachi route?

[Runis]

Optimal as in damage, or optimal as in best reliable combo?

Optimal damage would be charge stein combo - X > 6c > Tachi > ~j.2d  > abdc > jc > 66 > 5b/2c > 5c > 5[d] > ]j.2d[ > j.b > ~jc > j2c > j[5d] > adc > ]5d[ > jc > 66a > jb > jc > ]j5d[ > j2c
Requires 3 delay points and is quite tight on timing.

 

optimal in terms of reliable damage would be tachi j2d abdc jc j2c 663c adc ]j2d[ jc j2c (663c sod or ender of choice depending on corner and setup you want)

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, charged stein routes are the most optimal damage (by about 300-400 damage), but they are very tight timing and character/screen position-specific. I would avoid going for them online, at least, unless you have baller execution. Personally, I stick to the typical airdash jB jC j2C... route for easier execution and corner carry.

[Monarch]

I was actually looking at a few routes, and the 2B sj j.c j.b j.c j.2c method really caught my eye. Execution seems really easy and considering how far it carries the opponent it didn't look too bad.

[pochp]

I use all 3 regularly and also 6a 6b 6c tachi in some situations.

3c airdash one works with more hits before 6c so like most crouching confirms, ex: j.2c 2b 5c 6c etc...

Charged stein i only use when i feel like the spacing is right and very few hits before 6c.

Both of these I find unstable near the corner, so ill use superjump there, if the starter allows it.

[DudeUnderscore]

I have a question, I tend to randomly throw out lasers and they always mess up my combos.

What are some good laser set ups in neutral and after SoD? Or good laser setups in general?

[pochp]

Hmm, on ground hit I like to use lots of 2a until laser hits, if I know one is coming but unsure on the timing, just to make sure it doesn't break the combo. If I know exactly when it's coming I'll try to do 3c stein hit j.2c or something like that, to get an extended combo instead. The only advice I can give you in this regard, is just try to come up with various stein setups (a simple one being ending a combo in j.2c j.5d, then meaty 2b 5b 3c, laser hits, j.2c, etc.), and then recognizing when a similar situation happens outside of that setup (ex: you did j.d into airdash, opponent whiffed some long recovery move, and so you go in, 2a 5b delay 3c to feint the overhead, and get a full combo.

 

After SoD, I used to use 5d 4d 236a because it was good, but I've been trying out new stuff recently. (reason being I want to try 236d more, it seems better than I initially thought)

 

About setting up steins at neutral... in addition to the obvious advice of one at a time, wait and react to what they do, I'll add a few more things :

-sometimes super jump back stein is good, because if you see them trying to dash forward to catch you with an anti air or another normal, you might be high enough to airdash cancel over them.

-2d and 6d are good against high mobility characters, because they tend to move forward, which will screw up the aiming on 5d and 4d.

-a simple zoning pattern would be... hmmm these have never really been discussed here so I'm kind of hesitant to post up an example. It's one of the things about this character that I really don't like and find detrimental to the game. It's too easy to do for the situation it creates, and it's one of the things other players really dislike about this character. So, I really don't think newer players who see this post just try it out and learn how to improve at it, instead of the other fundamental aspects of the game. There's no telling if you'll still be able to do this in future versions of the game, and you can't do it in any other game I know of... anyway, just do 5d 4d j.5d j.4d delay airdash back j.5d j.4d, and repeat. You can't generally just go into it from SoD or whatever, you need to set it up somehow, but once you start, it's pretty hard for most characters to do something about it. First answer I tell people is that the lasers come in a pattern of a wave of 4 shots, then 2 shots, then 4 shots, then 2, etc. So, you block the first 4, superjump forward and land (no airdash), which will make the following 2 whiff, and then you might be close enough to try something. Now the thing about it is, the lasers don't do any chip damage, so if you don't have a life lead, your opponent doesn't need to do anything about it. On the other side, if you do have a life lead, and you start, you never really have to go in. I don't personally like doing it unless I have a life lead, and the difference is bigger than what my opponent can get from a BnB. The reason here is that I feel like the setup, while locking down the opponent, doesn't accomplish anything besides giving both players meter. Assuming the opponent is patient and has full meter, I feel like in the last few seconds of the match, they could try something, and they might succeed. After that, you wouldn't have enough time for a comeback, and they'd feel pretty good about themselves. Now, the odds of that happening are somewhat low in theory, but factor in that you might get nervous, bait something, screw up, I dunno. It also doesn't work against high mobility characters like valk, tao, haz, and you need to keep in mind that some characters have supers that answer this, ex: nu, rachel, relius, bang, jin... Oh yeah and if ever they get too close, cancel the last stein into a DP. Um, also, you don't want to use specials, as they'll break the pattern, and although it shouldn't be an issue, try to be careful not to input 214d by accident.

 

hmmm so, since I don't think we've discussed those kinds of setups before, I don't really know if they're common knowledge or not, but if anyone has something to add, please do so. I don't use this a lot, so I might have some misconceptions or be missing important information.

[C0R]

I like 5d 2d j.5d j.2d j.44 j.5d j.2d myself, very mashable. Very beats Rachel

[Monarch]

Is there ever a time where you can appropriately say: "Okay, now I should set up steins" or " Now's the time to rush in"? Or is this more of a playstyle thing? If the latter, what seperates a tactical Mu from an aggressive one?

[murderjoe]

In my opinion it comes down to if the opponent has the capability to break through the steinsGATE. Everyone eventually finds a way through, but it can prove to be a demoralizing and unique gameplay challenge that forces them to play by your pace, definitely worth trying at least once if it's called for in a match.

 

If they're good about beating it, avoid it, if they are a sucker for it, fight them sharpest sword forward.

 

YO MY BAD THIS IS C0R WRONG LAPTOP

 

Hah

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, I've always felt that trying to give the opponent the DDDDDDDDD only works if the player isn't properly aggressive enough or simply unfamiliar with how Mu works. But if the other player doesn't know how to deal with it or you feel like trolling, you might as well give it a shot.

 

Is there ever a time where you can appropriately say: "Okay, now I should set up steins" or " Now's the time to rush in"? Or is this more of a playstyle thing? If the latter, what seperates a tactical Mu from an aggressive one?

 

I think, like a lot of things with Mu, it depends on the matchup and the individual player, but IMO you should generally aim to set up a few steins when you're not actively doing anything else, even if only to see how the opponent reacts to them. If the opponent is determined to get on your ass, you should play more passive with movement and pokes to catch them making a mistake. Once they block something (even if it's a stray stein laser), you should attempt to take the advantage and rush in if you can. Even if you find that you can't get a good hit in, you can always keep the game at neutral, and still keep the game going at your pace. IMO this is one of the most elegant aspects of the character, how she can seamlessly switch from passive to aggressive and vice versa (though some may claim it is one of the derpier things about her ).

[pochp]

Mmm imo the most important thing is adapting to the opponent. Obviously, if you place a stein and block an opponent's attack before it fires, that placement worked against you. At the beginning of a match, I'll usually try to stick to normals and movement, and then once I get a better impression of the opponent, I'll start placing when I feel like they're at a safe distance. From then, of course the opponent will adapt to your style as well, so you have to be ready for that, and so forth. The part about going in is pretty similar, if you exclusively wait for steins you'll miss a lot of chances, especially against other long range characters. You just have to try to do what your opponent isn't ready for, and steins and specials just help you out (a lot). It isn't exclusively linear between placing vs going in, you just play neutral, adjust your movement to go towards positions where you have the advantage, and moving in closer when you see (or feel) an opportunity.

[susano]

Adaptation is usually the  biggest thing I struggle with online.

[Doren2k]

Patch in 2 days get hype whoooop

[Zeromus_X]

Get hype for Valk, Haz, and Tao nerfs. Unfortunately, the pink cat menace and supreme gorilla overlord still stand in our way to top tier glory.

[pochp]

Yeah, nerfs to bad matchups is pretty good news. At this point, not being top tier mostly means we're dodging a lot of potential hate, character should still be strong even with the DP nerf. One upcoming change I kinda wonder about is how this combo : 6b 6c tachi j.2d abdc j.c j.2c dash 3c airdash j.c j.2c dash 2b 5c SoD works in 1.1, but not in 1.0. Maybe the translation on the Ikutachi change was wrong?

[Runis]

do you mean as in ]j2d[ airdash j.c doesn't connect? cause I've had it connect before. unless they changed the proration numbers?

[pochp]

No, 5c sod at the end.

[susano]

Would we get new combos with the minor changes?

 

Also, is there an easier 6C fatal combo? Pochp, I was trying out the one on your video and I was like 'wth' the entire time. I can get out the first part but the other parts on pad...x___x

[Zeromus_X]

Our combos should pretty much be the same, at least from what I've seen in videos. Hopefully the tachi change will make certain confirms easier, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

 

FC midscreen or corner?

 

Midscreen I'm still not sure which confirm is the best. I've doing 6C FC > 5D > Tachi > j2C > badc > (delay) jC > dash 2B > 5C > 5[D] > jB > jC > j2C > j6[D] > 66 jC > j2C > dash 3C > j2C > (SoD) for about 4k and 2 steins on top of opponent when they hit the corner. Don't have to fuss about spacing on the 6C, and the 5D gives you plenty of time to confirm, even if the damage is a bit underwhelming for a FC combo. Maybe pochp has a more optimal confirm. EDIT: I just watched pochp's video again, and that confirm is way better than mine. I would grind that one out since it is much more optimal. Other than the beginning 6A, everything else in the combo just has to be done as fast as possible. Which part are you dropping?

 

Corner you should definitely do 6C FC > 5[D] > SoD > 66 2C > 5[D] > CT > 5C > 2[D] > jB > jC > j2C (OD cancel) > 214[D] (max) > (Omoi/OD Omoi) for 7~8k. Super EZ, though you have to make sure you're not so close to the corner that the 6C whiffs (should be fine if you just barrier'd a DP or walk back a step though).

[susano]

I'm dropping the middle part. Like how the hell you dash to connect with the charged steins?