[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[Lich]

(y) Keep it up. Yeah, if you guys want to ask any questions about the guide or leave comments, feel free to just post your questions in the thread. Any additions to that thread I think I'll just add it in the first post. Although I'm not really sure how big the first posts for a thread can get anymore because it's been so long. lol

[NecroTheReaper]

Well, if youre gonna answer I might as well ask :O

What are your thoughts Lich on 22B+D oki after a 214B/j.214B ender? I've had a lot of success with it, as it baits and punishes most DP's and can prevent all wakeup options, and is mostly gapless from my experiences. Requires a small bit of attention to know when to press it to catch all options, similar to 214C oki, but after I use it, most people are afraid to try anything midscreen which helps me get away with 214C oki midscreen cuz they start instant teching.

[Lich]

I actually didn't list it because it's not something I would use, I feel it is a waste. Yeah, it does shut-down all wake-up options for sure and the opponent is forced to block, but it also takes 2K doll meter just to force them to block. And then if you're trying to do 2D into 214C you just killed 3.5k meter just to make the opponent block a mix-up. Not only do you not get as much mix-up opportunity, but you also don't get as much damage if you do manage to hit them.

[NecroTheReaper]

It is a bit more expensive... but we have ignis-less combos now, so if you get them to block that mixup, it doesn't take much to confirm into 6B (unless it was 6A of course). Plus, it already sets up for 2C>6C>41236B if you catch a roll or rising dp. I'm just terrible at confirming into it.

[Lich]

Ignis combos still do more damage. You still lose damage and potentially out on the next set-up because you killed it all locking your opponent down when generally they'll be too scared to move anyway with how easy it is to punish them rolling, and on roll punish you get 3K or more. You're killing 1/5 your ignis meter just to keep them in place and you don't even get a mix-up off of it. 

[NecroTheReaper]

I think I use this mostly against characters with a DP, because they realize that their dp wont work on the setup, then they decide to start rolling away, which gets eaten, so then they now have to choose between delay or forward roll to not put you at advantage, which, like you said, we have other cheaper ways of calling out. However, it is great if you call out the round opener and end in 214B/j.214B, as you still have plenty of ignis at this point to get momentum started.

[Lich]

Perhaps if you had near full ignis meter I think it could justify the use, sure that wouldn't be too bad.

[Myoro]

So CPU Relius taught me an interesting fact today. If you use OD while Duo bios is already active, the opponent is frozen and Ignis is not. I don't know yet how this can be used for evil

[NecroTheReaper]

I feel like it was asked prior to 1.1 so I'll ask now. Do you guys go for ignis or damage optimization in the corner? During the Akon tourney, I was a bit rusty after not playing for a week, but lookin at some of the combos I used made me wonder if I was playing my best, what I should have focused more on.

[Myoro]

I usually go for 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>falling j.B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>4D>3C or whatever version of that I can use considering what came before the 236C. If I don't have enough Ignis to continue there are a ton of back doors in that combo that let you desummon her.

[Tsukahara]

I've been using a mix of Ignis/Damage in the corner. My basic rule of thumb is if I get a corner confirm with more than 60% Ignis or so and  she is out, I always do the combo Myoro notes above. If I get the confirm without ignis out, or with less than 50% Ignis meter, I will do the 5c(1)>j.b>delayed j.c>j.236c>land 2c>6C route.

 

Unless it's going to kill or I have tonnes of Ignis to spare, I always prefer to save the  ignis meter, and either go for more mixups or unblockable setups.

 

As far as midscreen goes, with ignis out, I still try and use her as little as possible, turning any confirm into 3c>6d and then not doing anything with her until j.214b as an ender. I also try and rc confirms off 236c instead of using ignis if she is anywhere near dying. (20% or less usually)

[NecroTheReaper]

I just remembered to ask about this, since it was something someone was telling me about at akon. Does the safejump j.C setup catch rolls AND safejump, or do you have to neutral jump for rolls and forward jump for safejump? It was killing me since I could never tell if I blocked a DP and apparently I was just doing it wrong lol

[Myoro]

If you have Ignis out you can usually 4D upon landing from neutral jump j.C. I don't know if it'll catch safe jump though.

[NecroTheReaper]

Another thing... why is lafino's frame data so decieving? How did someone even get a frame advantage off this move, cuz by all looks and appearanves, it should be heavy in frame advantage, but I've been mashed after of it so many times...

[Myoro]

Okay guyz and galz. I KNOW you've had those times when you're doing our optimal corner combo and you hit the first 5C(1) from too far away, or you accidentally neutral jumped after 5C(1) and you knew the falling j.B after the j.236C~j.214B was doomed to whiff. Well fret no more. If you annex the j.214B follow-up you can instead pick up with 5B>2C>6C>41236B after j.236C with much more leeway than you might expect. From there you can continue normally. You only lose out on about 225 damage adverage, and you save an extra 1000 Ignis so you may want to switch to this as a new Ignis conservative route.

 

Here's the script: 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>4D>3C (4274 DMG/30HT/2000IG)

 

If you want to conserve even more Ignis from out adverage Bnb Here's a combo for the low low price of 1000

 

5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C (4011DMG/28HT/1000IG)

 

This sucker is kinda hard to pull off, and I don't know about character specific-ness of it because I only tested this on Izayoi so far. for the 1000 Ignis version I have no Idea how many hits can come before the 236C before the whole thing falls apart.  I'll collect data on the lingering questions eventually, but don't hold your breath... in-fact aid me in the research and try to improve on these if you guys can.

[Myoro]

Did you all know that close range 3C combos into j.A on certain characters? I sure as heck didn't. you can get 3200 ish damage off in the corner with 5B>3C>j.A(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5C>236C...

 

point blank 3C>j.A(1)>j.B>j.C>j.2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash works midscreen for 3200ish damage.

 

 

Both combo versions work on: Mu, Kagura, Bullet, Tager, Azrael, Izayoi, Arakune, Jin, Rachel, Kokonoe, Platinum, Valkenhayn (even in wolf form), Bang, Taokaka.

 

3C>j.A connects but I can't seem to do j.A>j.B>j.C>2C on (corner combo works fine):Carl

 

Doesn't work at all on: Relius, Makoto, Hazama/Terumi, Hakumen, Ragna, Litchi, Noel, Amane, Nu.

 

 

I don't know for certain that it won't work on Carl, but I can't get it to (Can work if he's fataled before hand). For the characters it does work on some have a little more leeway than others and some require the 3C to be point blank, no exceptions, although corner seems to lessen the need to be point blank across the board.

 

Hope y'all found this useful. Let me know if you do.

[NecroTheReaper]

I also discovered j.A could combo from 3C today as well actually xD I knew it would work on Ara and Tao, in fact the reason why I tried it to begin with was cuz 3C>rising j.C combos on them, and I was tryin to see if I couldn't get a full combo off it.

Edit: another thing I found out is that if you do 4D>crossunder nose>crossup j.B for some reason Nose doesn't knock them down. Safejump crossup double overhead in the corner sounds awesome though right?

[Guardian]

Edit: another thing I found out is that if you do 4D>crossunder nose>crossup j.B for some reason Nose doesn't knock them down. Safejump crossup double overhead in the corner sounds awesome though right?

 

Replace Nose with Sandwich style Val tus and you get a 6-8 way mixup depending on the character. If you time it right, it can OS for sleepers and tech rollers.

[NecroTheReaper]

Most of the time I do crossunder tus, you can ask Myoro about that lol. Just don't use it on Kagura for obvious reasons

[Guardian]

Why not use it on Kagura? You can punish his DP if he tries it, esp with your back to the corner

[NecroTheReaper]

Unless you know hes gonna instant tech, 4D> crossunder tus>crossup j.B is a safe time for him to dp, regardless of if you block it or not. Him getting back to neutral isn't all that great for him either though, so its whatever

[Myoro]

Can we use Dash ley here to make this DP safe and go for double cross-up lows? It'd be like 4D>crossunder>Tus>(They tech)>dash ley ley>5B/2B/6A.

[NecroTheReaper]

I think it'd require a slight bit of dash monentum, but it sbould be possible since tus pushes them into you. Interestingly enough the crossup combo with ignis does more damage so if the double crossup works, you should still manage to get good damage and keep them cornered.

Edit: i don't think double ley would be possible for the same reason why single ley is possible.

[Myoro]

Getting dash momentum is as easy as using 2366A. Back when I played Hazama EONS AGO, I learned how to dash distortion (or dashtortion =3) 2362366B basically made it so you could Houtenjin someone half a screen away. This is transferable to Ley by doing 2366A and can be used to cross up point blank people (sometimes even screwing up their attempts at meaties) I have yet to get it down to an artform, but it almost is like having Koko's 22C to use on wake-up

[NecroTheReaper]

I mean it wouldn't be possible since Tus would push them further into the corner.