[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

I knew that, but there jse to be a 6f grap between his w.5C and wolf dash j.A, so it should at least trade, but it doesnt.

[DJ_Blactricity]

I knew that, but there jse to be a 6f grap between his w.5C and wolf dash j.A, so it should at least trade, but it doesnt.

It's a 5F gap. You can instant block 5A or 2C

[NecroTheReaper]

2Cing it is pointless and risky, cuz even if you IB it, you don't get a CH or an air hit. Man I wish our AA wasn't crap. I mean, usually a character is equipped with 2 AAs that work in different places or 1 good AA. We get 1 bad AA. Aaaaanyway, while watching a videos, seems a lot of high end players have the same problem matchups that I do, so I guess those are just disadvantaged matchups.

[Justice7541]

Or you could be Izayoi and not really have any AA at all.

[NecroTheReaper]

Idk, her 623B is only slightly more punishable on wiff, with 4f h-invul and a muuuuuch larger hitbox (even if its actual coverage isnt as much as it shows). I honestly cant say which is better or worse since I dont play Izayoi, but I do know I've seen more people get hit by 623B than Rel's 2C

[Shockna]

How does one make vids using a PS3? It'd be super cool if I could make combo and set-up vids.

 

It's not very difficult. The best way is to use a capture card of some kind (there are quite a few great guides online about how to use these, but IIRC a good card is still pretty pricy), but if you've got a new-ish (post-2011) smartphone that can do either 720 or 1080 recording with TV that isn't a CRT, you can get some pretty good videos if you have a good system to mount the phone so it doesn't wobble.

[NecroTheReaper]

May be old, but I havnt been usin it. Sj.IAD j.2D j.A combos and is faster (though not as ambiguous) as our usual dash jump j.2D crossups

[Justice7541]

Idk, her 623B is only slightly more punishable on wiff, with 4f h-invul and a muuuuuch larger hitbox (even if its actual coverage isnt as much as it shows). I honestly cant say which is better or worse since I dont play Izayoi, but I do know I've seen more people get hit by 623B than Rel's 2C

Well Izayoi's 623B is more of a preemptive thing, you're most likely going to lose if you try to hit it against an opponent who's close to you since the hitbox is really narrow (albeit long). 623C is what you're thinking of with the upward hitbox but again that can be spaced out because the horizontal hitbox is so narrow.

I don't think either character has very good AA but at least Relius's 2C is only one button so it can be used on reaction to jump-ins. Much harder to react to a wolf dash with 623C etc.

[NecroTheReaper]

I will agree to that. Dp inputs are a bitch to use under pressure. Though Rel's you have to use on prediction since it has the range of a 6A with the invul of a 2C. Mostly referrin to people who have 2 AAs.

[Poultrygeist]

Don't a lot of chars have command AAs, like Ragna/Noel/Amane/Koko 6A.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Yeah, and its kinda funny that Rel 6B was designed like an AA... but isnt really an AA

[Poultrygeist]

You can probably get away with 6C as an AA if your opponent goes full retard but that's a pretty slow ass AA lol.  I think 6B is just halfassed to fill the quota of every character having a 6X for every normal and a 3C.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well our 3C is good, but 6B should have like frame 5-11 h-invul like other AA's

[Errol]

2c has an amazing hitbox and active frames. seriously. antiairs have weaknesses, yours is not the worst like you somehow think it is

[NecroTheReaper]

I'm calling bullshit on tbat errol. Watch RYO and you'll see how often even the relius god gets fucked cuz of 2Cs shit hitbox

[Iron Savior]

Idk if its the worst, but i  forget i even have an anti-air sometimes
Considering how i always thought Izayoi had a good anti-air, and there's an Izayoi player complaining about her anti-air here, i get the feeling no one is content with their anti-airs, as good as the other character's may seem

It reminds me of this comic http://existentialcomics.com/comic/33

 

Except for Kokonoe's, her anti-air is the shit

[Errol]

Def worse, or no antiair - Arakune, Tager, Bang.

 

Relius' 2c is very similar to tsubaki's. 

[NecroTheReaper]

Dude, I've had Bang players actively tell me his 2D is a better AA than relius 2C. When I'm talkin with people, they always criticize how bad his 2C is. Just cuz I randomly throw it out on a yomi predictiont hat you're gonna wind rushat me fron full screen doesnt make.it a good AA.

[Errol]

if you're not gonna accept it having a very big horizontal hitbox, tons of active frames, huge reward, 2c input, crouching hurtbox before it comes out as advantages then maybe it is totally shit.  But I am tired of seeing :

 

Tager Players: Everyone else has a better anti-air!!!

Relius Players: Everyone else has a better anti-air!!!

Bang Players:  Please give me an an anti-air!!

 

and I think it is bullshit. I've mained Tsubaki, Makoto, and Rachel and I know they all have good anti airs that all have serious weaknesses in certain areas, though in CP the overall all around best one is probably Makoto. 

[NecroTheReaper]

Its relevant to gameplay discussion, of course it'll be brought up frequently. And I dont have to use other characters that are shown to be weaker to back up my arguments based on gameplay. If you don't like the relius forums, why are you in the relius forums?

[Myoro]

Thing about Tager and Bang is they have 236236B/A (respectively) as plausable reversals that cover air approaches whereas our metered reversal 2363214C is also bad for air assaults. I know that's not a huge difference or advantage that they have over us but it still needs to be considered. (I'm not about to argue that Relius is worse than Tager i any way shape or form.0

 

I know 2C has a good share of actives and great reward too, but it's lack of vertical reach coupled with its frame 7 head invuln means it will likely ether be baited or outright beaten. Large recovery coupled with lack of other defensive tools means an almost certain punish if whiffed.

 

it's horizontal hitbox isn't really so much an issue as the placement of it's hitbox. As a result of it being our only reliable anti-air, losing to cross-ups, and things like valk's j.C are just an expected thing for Relius players.

 

It's not the game's worst anti-air, but it's our best one, and it doesn't preform as well as we need it to. That said even a bad tool when used well can be useful and a Relius can and should milk 2C for all it's worth and more.

 

After dabbling in it I've found quite a few more redeeming qualities for the move. To list a couple; firstly like Errol mentioned 2C has a lot of actives, a deceptive amount even, if you drop a corner combo intentionally at a low height  you can "whiff" 2C on their recovery frames for their air tech and you'll catch them when those I frames end and they expect to be able to punish your recovery. Another is the fact that it can be an effective ground to ground, I've had it cleanly beat gustav for a fatal>5A+B punish. another is the fact that if blocked it can be converted into 3C>jump to be made safe or late canceled into 3C for a frame trap and delicious 3C counterhit.

 

These things do little for our defensive game though, so much as improve our already bolstering offensive =P

 

 

Necro, we still have the game's best and most universal defensive tool, the ability to block. No one has safe pressure endlessly, Relius is about the closest the game even comes to that, so I think we've gotta just suck it up and block like gentlemen do.

[Errol]

https://twitter.com/Errol1001/status/483712218123337728

[mAc Chaos]

I always thought of Relius 2C as comparable to Mu 2C.

[NecroTheReaper]

Yeah, I'd say its closer to Mu's as well, but hers has (and this is really my only issue with admitting his 2C is good) is Mu's 2C hitbox covers her head.

And yeah, I know Myoro. I probably need to figure out what to accomplish while blocking and what to look out for.

[Myoro]

Ehh? Maybe I'm just bad at life. (Then again it preforms pretty dang well against Haku's air to ground so you could be getting a false positive.)

 

Against Koko, Tao, or Valk the move is a bag-o-sticks in terms of usefulness. At least for myself.