[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[LordSpectreX]

The acronym for my username

 

Oh right. You're always lower caps so it didn't click! 

[Dusty]

3) I see a lot of Relius' do 236D>9>j.B after 6A knockdown, which is obviously strong, but is it supposed to lose to Forward roll? I've never seen anyone try it in JP match videos and it seems to work from testing, but I could be doing something subtly wrong.

 

Yep 6A>236D loses to foward roll. It's the only option to get out of the unblockable for a majority of the cast. If you do 6A>236D then 3C 1AB OS you catch the forward roll and quick get up and baits most of the DP's and Supers in the game, if they sit there and don't wake up with anything the yo-yo hits super meaty and you can apply mix ups and pressure afterwards.

 

Your opponent has to guess if your going to play it safe or going to unblockable them. The situation is actually pretty fucked up in terms of options the opponent has.

[WakeUpDP]

off of S starters and throws the old combo still works X>236C~214A>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>j.B>2C>6C>4D>3C

 

X being 2A>5B>3C or 5B+C or whatever S starter you are using.

 

This did some good damage back in the day for 30% IG and was largely used

They tech out when starting with 2A>5B>3C (grab works fine though), and with now shortened S starters you might as well save the extra 1k for oki.

 

1) What's the throw combo in the corner at the moment? I do 236C>214C>2C>j.236C>2C>6C>41236B>3C for 4k. Which seems fine but is there anything better (like a better ender cause 3C is a bit ugh.)

 

2) Does 2775 from a 2A in the corner with 2A>5B>3C>236C>214C>5C(2)>2C>4D>6A sound about right?

 

4) Is 3C the only real way to knockdown after the new 236C>214A>22C>2D midscreen route when doing more than two hits? (e.g. 2B>2C>3C>236C)

1- On my side, off the grab the 41236B doesn't combo? Isn't it too long for an S starter?

2- Could add a j.236C to it: 2A>5B>3C>236C>214C>5C(2)>2C>j.236C>4D>6A for 3010. if not too high after j.236C you can add another 2C if you want.

4- Off of your example ending with 41236B > 5B > 2C > j.236C~j.214B/j.214C would still work. Well ending in 3C isn't that bad at this point.

 

• Vol Tedo

  • Increased recovery on hit?

  • Shortened animation

This change is a bit weird, at the very least Relius is invuln in the recovery so he cannot be punished on the opponent that recovers before him. More incentive to make sure it kills I suppose.

They also made his astral punishable unlike previous versions where he was fully invuln the whole time. (don't think it was mentioned)

[Myoro]

They also made his astral punishable unlike previous versions where he was fully invuln the whole time. (don't think it was mentioned)

 

;_;

 

There goes my favorite reversal.

 

Also I was told elsewhere S starters were lengthened...

 

I know it's a stretch but does 2A>5B>2C>236C~214C>41236B>5B>2C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>4D>6A work as a substitute? I'll be able to test tommorow finally.

[LordSpectreX]

Not sure where I got the 4k throw combo from tbh. Maybe I cheated and used a CT? But yeah 3.6k for the same combo but 2C>6C>4D>6A seems pretty good. 

[Myoro]

4B+C does have enough untech to do 5A+B iirc, coulda been that.

 

I need to add 4B+C>41236B>5B>2C>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>663C to my list of things to try tomorrow, before it was 4B+C>41236B>5B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>663C.

 

With the advent of 2C and it's superior P2 (estimated to be 92 in CPEX, in comparison to 6B's P2 of 79) the damage should go up by quite a bit, provided this new S starter timer doesn't screw us up.

 

By the way, didn't say it before, but awesome profile pic SpectreX!

[Myoro]

So 6B>j.B>j.C>delay>>>>>5B>5A+B>2C>TKj.236C>5B>2C>last frame 236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C>2363214C>5C(2)>2C is an applicable answer to challenge 20 for Relius. Still has 50 Gauge at the end too hilariously enough.

 

Relius' new dash is glitchy as heck. Try dashing, walking backwords for a half second then standing still, you'll see Relius slide forward for a moment while standing still. I wonder if this can be used...

 

That 4B+C combo I did earlier also works BTW. Still need numbers on it tho.

 

Also super weird is the fact that non summoned 214B comes out quicker than summoned 214B to the point where 2C>6C>214B only works if Ignis is de-summoned.

[Myoro]

how do you Super IAD well off of 2C? I can't get anywhere near consistent with it, and before I develop muscle memory for 5B>2C>3C>6D>662C>6C>41236B>5C(1)>2C>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B I want to learn this superior version instead. Also is it possible to 2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>662C>sj.B>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B for cross-up?

 

Any advice helps!

[LordSpectreX]

how do you Super IAD well off of 2C? I can't get anywhere near consistent with it, and before I develop muscle memory for 5B>2C>3C>6D>662C>6C>41236B>5C(1)>2C>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B I want to learn this superior version instead. Also is it possible to 2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>662C>sj.B>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B for cross-up?

 

Any advice helps!

 

The actual super IAD? I do 2C>2>7>66. This is where those two years playing Arakune and spamming jump cancel air dash j.B shows it's worth lol. I find the generally hard part is connecting the j.B after since it's pretty strict, but you'll get used to it. Though for myself, I'm just gonna leave it as I find it way hard to do consistently online, even if you drop it 1/10 times offline, it suddenly becomes not worth doing over the standard version 10/10 times.

 

Not sure if that variation works as a crossup, but 2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>66B>sj.B etc does work. 

[someonewhodied]

honestly, you can do the combo just fine without airdashing. Its just for that extra bit of corner carry if you really need it.

[Myoro]

The actual super IAD? I do 2C>2>7>66. This is where those two years playing Arakune and spamming jump cancel air dash j.B shows it's worth lol. I find the generally hard part is connecting the j.B after since it's pretty strict, but you'll get used to it. Though for myself, I'm just gonna leave it as I find it way hard to do consistently online, even if you drop it 1/10 times offline, it suddenly becomes not worth doing over the standard version 10/10 times.

 

Not sure if that variation works as a crossup, but 2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>66B>sj.B etc does work. 

 

Thanks for the response! I'll continue to try it each time.

 

honestly, you can do the combo just fine without airdashing. Its just for that extra bit of corner carry if you really need it.

 

 

Admittedly in cross-up scenarios it seems a little counter intuitive, but I want to get good to the point where I can 2C to catch a jump out then SIADj.B>j.C>2C>6C>214C/241236B.

 

Mid combo every bit of carry is important, and could decide the difference between getting 6A and getting j.214B oki, (or worse me whiffing 6A oki 'x') so if there's even little things like this that I can do to optimize my Relius play I'll take them.

 

On to my next subject though, what are you guys doing at neutral? I find that 214B is too slow and has become easier to poke Ignis out of (as she's gained a hurtbox on her blades a couple frames before she completes the attack,) I find that 214A is too high cost and too low yield to use as a poke (and now is much less safe.) And 214C while still fantastic is harder to put into key areas and also whiffs more due to its bigger, but sadly more realistic hitboxes.

 

On the topic of sandwich, I found something smooth as heck. the first few frames of summon transition into sandwich, so jump>airdash~j.D>crossover with airdash momentum will put you into sandwich state for free.

 

On another topic I believe the CH hitstun of air hit j.6D and air hit j.2D has greatly increased. So much so that confirms into damage are almost too easy. I need to know how to use j.xD more effectively in my air to air in general. Contrary to its intended effect stalking stops 214B>airdash>j.8D from winning my air combat for me as Ignis dawdles at the opposite side of the stage. I also feel like once the opponent gets air superiority it's over for Rel and he has to block, no hitboxes that hit above him is really rough. Relius has 5A 5C 6B 2C j.A dash under>5B j.B+C and block as effective responses to air attacks, but is there anyone who's found a method of winning air to air with Relius?

 

Perhaps I could follow up 214B with TKj.236C to make an opponent who's used both their air options to block, what with its large anti-air hitbox then use Ignis who's on her way back from stalk mode to keep them blocking and put them in pressure... Iunno.

[LordSpectreX]

I play his neutral mainly around being evasive with the (j.)6/2/8D series. As you said they have a lot more hitstun now. 214A is great for stopping rushdown but for your own rushdown it's just not positive enough. 214B honestly feels pretty garbage now. I only really use it to catch people off guard. Not only does it have the hitbox problem, but it recovers too slowly and stays behind them for incredibly long. You can do stuff like 214B, a zoner blocks it, you evade for a couple of seconds then use 214A/C to send Ignis at them from behind. But against rushdown characters, them blocking 214B just leaves you too defenseless. 

 

I'm a right big fan of say, j2D then either 2D/214C/Airdash whatever. If you're against say, Ragna, if he tries to poke Ignis after j.2D, 2D will pretty much catch anything. since 5B get armored, and 5B>5C will get eaten by 2D. If he respect it, you can go in and do whatever. If he jumps away or backdashes, you can do 214C and Ignis will chase after them. It's my most effective way of winning neutral. 

 

It does cost a fair bit of meter if they respect it, but if that's the case then you can take a risk and just not do 2D and go straight in. 

[Myoro]

Thanks for the reply LordSpectreX!

 

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but Dusty, SWD, and I started a Relius Skype group. If anyone wants in PM me or post or something, we want people to join.

[WakeUpDP]

Maybe add to sig while the group is open? Might be some time before we use up this forum page though

[Myoro]

Not sure if it's what you'd meant but I added an ad to my sig.

 

Time to usher in the Relius era!

[WakeUpDP]

Yeah, I wasn't too clear. It's just that the post about the skype group will be not be in the latest page of the discussion after a few posts. But you got what I meant.

[xXavierx]

What tools are most important to play Relius in the new version? I have basically no BB experience but I want to give this version a shot. 

[Myoro]

His 6A is very important this time around, as its hard knockdown sets up really good unblockables. 214A and j.B seem to be less relevant, and 5B and j.xD have had an expectable rise in usage with his dash buffs and j.B nerfs. 3C is still usable as it's only about -4 on block now. As always 6D is godlike for pressure strings and frame traps, only this time around it can't whiff for being too close. 2C is good for resetting pressure on ones lonesome or in tandem with use of 6D all because it jump cancels on block now. Tus is still good from 3C and 6A knockdowns catching most options from knockdown, and when used after j.xD it can still be applied at neutral with 4D and 2D and 22B/C as alternate options to catch people trying to work around it.

 

uhhh did I miss anything guys?

[Iron Savior]

I haven't been around lately, i don't even have the new version, but while looking at combo videos in an action game discussion, i noticed something cool
Relius can do 3c>Lauger>Zein>meterless unsummon combo as seen in this video
https://youtu.be/X5VkrRgHTeE?t=2m39s

[Myoro]

I can't do stuff like P1 or P2, but I went ahead and documented changes to Relius damage and minimal damage of distortions and such as well as which "Strike Projectiles" de-summon Ignis now.

 

j.C  damage was nerfed by 100 now does 660DMG

airthrow damage was buffed by 100 to 1400DMG

~214C (Id Zein) does 1200DMG and is Rel's strongest single hitting move now

OD vinum does 220 damage per hit and does 6 more hits, but lasts roughly the same amount of time. opponents are forced into crouch on any hit and no matter what move is used it seems they cannot be teched out of Vinum.

OD adds no damage to any moves whatsoever, except distortions

Tedo's minimum damage seems to be 1035DMG

OD Tedo's minimum damage seems to be 1322DMG

while normal vinum seems to have a minimum of 350DMG

OD Vinum seems to have a minimum damage of 429DMG

Normal Bios seems to have a minimum of 800DMG

OD Bios seems to have a minimum of 960DMG

 

The rest is basically correct on the wiki.turn's out j.B's damage is just the same lol.

 

 

Noel's entire moveset now with the exception of 4D, optic barrel, j.236236D, and 632146D gunshots seem to hurt Ignis now

Jin's 623D(1) and his 5D now, but she's unaffected by j.D and 2D still

Terumi's 5D j.D and j.2D hurt her now

Amane's 5D, and j.Ds desummon her. 6D and 236D~X still do nothing to her

Kokonoe's 5C and j.C now desummon Ignis

Arakune's 5D now desummons her

Azrael's 2C and growler now desummon her

Bullet's 5C now desummons her

Space parry doesn't interact with Ignis aside from guard-pointing her attack, but the follow-up can desummon her

Litchi's 5C(e) desummons her now

:Rachel's 5B and 2B now desummon her

 

On a happier note 2B has a better midscreen confirm from max range by following into 5B>236C>2D>5B>2C>6C>etc

It's more damaging and more cost effective than using 2B>5B>6D>663C>6D>662C. The 2D buff makes this possible (It's like they gave Ignis 1.0 Gad Leis)

 

I may make a list of moves that do not affect Ignis if nobody beats me to it. stay tuned!

[Dusty]

With NA release coming up really soon I feel like we should re-ignite the forum. Working on compiling "important" things we've talked about in skype chat and posting them on here. Will be back soon with things and stuff.

[Sparklies-_-]

This feels weird asking but I'm having alot of trouble basically confirming anything with Relius because at max range 5B only 236C is going to hit but it's so bad on block. And I end up doing 5B 2C 236C alot on block by accident because I have to input it so fast I don't remember to check if they're blocking x_x. Yet I have such an easy time confirming stuff with Ragna; is the basic idea just to never go in as solo Relius? I'm sorry I'm so bad at wording this lol

[Myoro]

You can always 5B>5D or just stagger 5B or 2A. both are safe although negative (Except 2A which is +1 on block). Really as solo Relius the best confirms you'll get are 2B>5B>236C and 5B>2C at close range. if you're feeling daring, reset them into crush trigger and reap the reward.

[Sparklies-_-]

Alright I'll try and put that to use thank you ^^. So weird going from a character that I can basically just screw around with and get them so scared that I can just throw them over and over to somebody I have to think with xD. Is there any specific reason to go for 3C 6D dash2C confirms when I feel like the routes for both that and 3C 41236B+D lead to roughly the same damage and the 2nd one is easier...or atleast I can get it to hit x_x.

[Myoro]

Well 5B>3C>6D>662C is easier to confirm, it's the same as a blockstring might be from 3C and right at the point where you press 6D you  know if they're in a combo or not. with 5B>3C>41236B+6D you ether have to be certain they're in a combo by the 3C or have to play with that situation where you're +! after (not so bad I know, but not as good as being like +6~10) which 3C>6D is roughly

 

That aside 5B>3C>6D>662C>6C>41236B>2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>5C(2)>SJ>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B does 3539 damage

 

and 5B>3C>41236B+6D>2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B (The most damage and carry I could get from 41236B+6D routing for the same price) does only 3355 damage and has a good bit less carry.

 

If you're having trouble with the 3C>6D>662C link I offer this advice, use 6D always at the last possible second before they touch the ground. That will give you more than enough time to 662C.

 

If you just like 3C>6D+move routing, fret not; 5B>3C>5A+B + 6D>662C>6C>41236B>stuff is the optimal crush trigger combo midscreen