[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

lich says its really really good tho

[TD]

Did he explain why?

Any chance catching people pressing buttons requires a hard read.

Just average IMO. I guess it could qualify as his longest solo poke which is good for pressure but that doesn't make it Jesus.

[mAc Chaos]

nope, thats why im asking here

[TD]

He might want to explain himself then. I don't think we are missing anything else about this move that is of importance.

[StylisH]

As stated before, it has slow start up, but this can create a nasty frame trap for those who fall in love with pressing buttons. Since Relius is a frame trap character, this shouldn`t shock anyone, but it does catch mashers off guard.

Against Haku it works because it throws Zanshin off, unless it gets read.

[Myoro]

lich says its really really good tho

 

Where is Lich anyhow? Gad is one of the 2 moves I never use in neutral, the other being 6C. He has some splainin' to do.

[NecroTheReaper]

Those are more blockstring/combo tools anyway. Both have really good range, but are waaaay to slow to use in neutral.6C can be a really hard callout to a bad air approach, with great reward since air hit 6C gives us our BnB for 3k+ damage.

[Myoro]

Thought I might just babble a little.

 

In pressure after a falling normal you can do, 663C>jump>j.B and the momentum from 3C makes j.B cross up. 63214B>3C oki is made better by 63214B>663C>jump because the momentum of the 66 will push the opponent a bit further. Wonder if we can get even more distance with an IAD.

 

After the opponent is hit with Duo bios I will catch them with 2C>6C>22A>4D>sj>j.B>j.236C~j.214B>airdash. This works pretty well for me, dealing a good chunk, while maintaining oki, I think we can do better though.

 

If I can get them to the corner I do 2C>6C>22A>4D>3C, although thinking on it now, 2C>6C>236C~214A>3C may be better. 5C(2)>2C>6C>236C~214A>3C may get even more damage if it works. I think I will find out what's optimal from different Duo Bios hits.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well since you shared, I'll go ahead and share as well.

I'm sure we all know that almost any CH or a 5C crouching hit combos into 6C. What I don't know that everyone knows is if you do 6C>41336B(w), you're still largely + on tech. I'm not too sure of the math, but i think there's like 60f of the opponent being able to do nothing. Gad leis has a total duration of 55f. Firstly, you're like at least +5 on emergency tech. Second, if they delay, they get picked up for a full combo at no ignis cost. A lot of people tend to jump out after this though, and leaves a lot of peope free to an IAD air grab. All of these are good because they give respectable damage with no ignis cost, or put you in a very favorable position.

I dunno if you've watched me play, but I use this all the time. Saves ignis, gives damage and oki, whats not to like?

Edit: also, why does the frame data say that 6C normal hit should combo into 41236B? Says 6C has 33f hitstun and 41236B has a 30f startup. Logic should dictate that this combos.

[Myoro]

So today I learned that 5B>[6D>665AAA]x3>3C>2363214C>665AA>OD>632146D and 5AAA>[6D>665AAA]x2>3C>2363214C>665AA>OD>632146D works

 

So if you ever feel the mighty need to give someone a good slap here ya go. first thing does 3.3K second does 2.7ish, both cost 100 meter + OD, but you can chop off bits at the end to accommodate your resources.

 

Should work the same with 2A on crouch for less damage and tougher inputs

 

Also for some reason 5B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C works on Tao, but when I start with j.C>6B or j.C>5B>6B she'll just float over the ending 3C. Halp?

 

Also also, assuming we keep jump cancel 2C from the loke, 5B>6B>5C(1)>2C>TKj.236C>2C>236C>2C>6C>41236B>3C could work (But again tao techs my 3C when I try it supplementing my 2C>TKj.236C with 2C>Rapid>TKj.236C...)

 

If it does work it'll do 3346 damage + whatever 3C would do, I of course can't accurately get meter from this. Crush trigger instead of 41236B will guaranteed get 3C oki.

[NecroTheReaper]

I have the same floating issue with bamg in the corner, but with regular combos. I have no idea what does it though, cuz sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. I've tried delays with 2C>6C but it doesn't seen to matter much.

[Myoro]

For me the biggest offender is Makoot Nanoot, we need to do some investigations into this. Can't have faulty Oki right?

[NecroTheReaper]

Ignis, the oki machine, unable to set up oki? Of course this can't stand xP. Honestly I havnt fought a lot of Makotos, just like I'm sure those Makotos havnt fought a lot of Relius...s...s

[Myoro]

The plural for Relius is a problem for another time. I'm primarily talking about 41236B>3C sometimes causing the 3C to whiff, I want to know exactly when it will or won't work before I fully rely on it, or how to get it to work every time.

 

_{Reli? Reli-i? Reliuses? Relius? Masked Perverts?}

 

Strangely enough I tend to fight a load of Makotos... Maybe I'm picking up all the ones you're missing.

 

Important edit!!!1: So I errored on writing the solo combo scipt with jump cancel 2C>tkj.236C. I wrote 5B>6B>5C(1)>2C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B>3C.

 

What I meant to write was a much more impressive 5B>6B>5C(1)>2C>TKj.236C>2C>236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C. I corrected it in my OP.

[NecroTheReaper]

Eh, I'm not on, got kinda tired. I'll need to test it eventually cuz i do find a few bang players heee and there that I get screwed out of oki on for not being able to finish a simple combo.

Referring back to 2C jump cancel, I guess you're right in that we will get some good combo utility out of it. If 3C jump cancel is really removed... eh, we'll adapt. It'll be tough, and I'll be sad, but Relius hasn't had a moment below A tier really.

[Myoro]

Eh, I'm not on, got kinda tired. I'll need to test it eventually cuz i do find a few bang players heee and there that I get screwed out of oki on for not being able to finish a simple combo.

Referring back to 2C jump cancel, I guess you're right in that we will get some good combo utility out of it. If 3C jump cancel is really removed... eh, we'll adapt. It'll be tough, and I'll be sad, but Relius hasn't had a moment below A tier really.

 

I'll take a crack at it tomorrow too! I don't believe Rel will be too hurt by those loke nerfs even if they do come to pass. I'll dedicate myself to finding new stuff 'till he's twice as strong as 1.1 Rel.

 

I should also investigate what we can do with 2C>IAD and other stuff that comes with the jump cancel territory. Ya know, just in case. What I'm hoping for is the revival of that Airdash>j.236C(Launches the opponent the opposite way Relius is facing)~214A (Ignis knocks the opponent back at Relius which allows him to pick it up with 5B or whatever upon landing)

 

This would vastly improve our damage as we could get j.236C, 6C, 41236B, and 236C in the same meterless combo midscreen.

[NecroTheReaper]

Looking at chrrent frame data, we should be able to do IAD>just about anything. Its got 26f untech on air hit, so if 9 of it go to jump and air dash startup, we have 17f goes to anything we want. If air Lauger is 14-16f startup like I remember it, you could even do that.

[Myoro]

And if that's not enough, j.B or j.8D might allow us to get the Ideal j.236C hit (Although the way j.B is is likely to change as well. I don't want j.8D to be the answer because that'll bring the Ignis cost up to 3K IG or higher >_>)

 

Anyway, some definite things to try. I'm getting more and more hype for 2.0 with each passing moment!

[NecroTheReaper]

What you could do is xx>air hit 2C>IAD j.B>j.C>6B>ender is how I see it workin. Wont know anything till it hits arcades. Maybe then we'll get some real info on Relius.

[Myoro]

I've cracked it!

 

6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C works with up to three hits or before the 6B. What you have to do is make sure 41236B hits their abdomen, so that they bounce lower.

 

This means that airdash j.B>j.C>5B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C works (By the way that combo is [2797DMG/+20HT/no IG])

 

I need a load more set-ups that land me with confirm-able 6B hit's so I can practice these in combat.

 

VERY IMPORTANT EDIT!

 

This just in. 236D+j.C>5A+B>5D>665A>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>ETC works.

 

The 665A is tight as sin so I haven't been able to see how far it combos, but this is Ignis desummon for full IG at only 1500 IG and 25% gauge start-up.

 

236D+j.C>5A+B>5D>665A>jump back>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [2978DMG/-13HT/+full IG]

 

236D+j.C>5A+B>5D>665A>jump back>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [2954DMG/-13HT/+full IG]

 

236D+j.C>5A+B>5D>665A>jump back>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C>236C~214A>663C [3251DMG/-12HT/IG=9000]

 

Not sure how much more can be gotten outta this.

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, watching a lot high level play (including our own high level player Lich), what's the purpose of doing rising barrier in our BnB after 3C? Other than looking cool, bursts arent air unblockable as far as I know, and barriering a burst will give you less frame advantage, as well as it just generally being easier to do 3C>j.4B/C. I don't think jump startup would matter, and you should be able to block right after anyway, right?

[TD]

Stops ib -> Aub attack/aub dp.

[NecroTheReaper]

During blockstrings I'd get it, but people do it during the standard BnB. Is it just a habit at this point, cux it sounds like a waste of barrier.

[TD]

It may raise their level of conscious. The extra button pressing could get them into the game a little more. There is plenty of barrier for this game, only over zealous use/ running away/amane eats barrier.

[NecroTheReaper]

I guess so. Still sounds weird to use a defense resource while you're on the attack, but I guess its not affecting the match.