[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[Myoro]

Some characters like Carl the 22C>2D did work, but you couldn't reach him in time with 6C.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, seems like 100 meter Tedo RC combos might be a lot better in 2.0, cuz that thing is fast now. At least a third if not half of its animation was cut, which means a lot more on the combo timer. Be awesome to get 6C FCs to tedo RC into jump loops, the best trolling.

[Myoro]

So, seems like 100 meter Tedo RC combos might be a lot better in 2.0, cuz that thing is fast now. At least a third if not half of its animation was cut, which means a lot more on the combo timer. Be awesome to get 6C FCs to tedo RC into jump loops, the best trolling.

 

Still kinda bent outta shape about losing frames on that move. It lost so much "Impact" without it's CSE face slide already. Funny how the move is getting better and better and yet less satisfying.

 

Anyhow. Do you think we'll get anything cute off of it? I think in the corner Tedo>RC>236C>Zein>TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B>3C might hurt a lot if we can get away with it. But if you're spending 100 gauge, you want to kill.

 

What do you think we'd go with off of OD Tedo>RC, ODR Tedo>RC or Tedo>RC>OD?

 

Also did OD Tedo speed up?

[NecroTheReaper]

Since its the charge time on Ignis' fist that was shortened, I'm assuming OD Tedo.is faster too, since she still does the same animation as regular version. I was scrub in Ex, so I wasn't able to do those pro tedo RC corner carry combos.

For now, even though it'll only affect cute stuff like jump loops, I hope j.B still jas its usual untech time. I'd be sad if my 6C fatal loops dropped.

[Myoro]

Since its the charge time on Ignis' fist that was shortened, I'm assuming OD Tedo.is faster too, since she still does the same animation as regular version. I was scrub in Ex, so I wasn't able to do those pro tedo RC corner carry combos.

For now, even though it'll only affect cute stuff like jump loops, I hope j.B still jas its usual untech time. I'd be sad if my 6C fatal loops dropped.

 

I'm fairly certain j.B's untech dropped with it's level. It's gonna be a real pain for cross-ups if I'm right. Prolly no more fatal loops. (I'm still clueless why people use 6C at all in neutral. I'm even more shocked that people get hit by it. if Air blocked 6C>41236B was a sure thing I might try, but )

 

Don't know about CH tho. Hope CHj.B>665B is still a thing. I'll be sad if it isn't.

 

But hey, if I'm wrong and it hasn't that means a lot of cool things can happen. and more importantly my dreams of 2C>IAD>j.B>j.C>j.236C>665B combos will be realized to the applause of many. I think they had to reduce j.B's untech so 2C>j.B>j.C loops wouldn't happen.

[NecroTheReaper]

But the loops weren't easy, nor did they do stupid absurd damage like other loops in the game -cough-bang6B-cough-. Typically the jump loop doesn't give you 3C oki, which means it cant be ended in a DD either. This means that its always between 3.4-3.8k. Its not a bad nerf, but its one that makes me personally sad Dx. All of my signature combos were stolen from me -cry-.

I am curious as to what the jump cancel moved to 2C can do. I'm also curious if 3C really does have reduced recovery or if 6D has increased level.

[Myoro]

Fatal loops weren't really that prevalent, and compared to CH3C combos which were/are/always will be more common than fatals, they served little importance.

 

CH3C>665C(2)>2C>6C>41236B will still work and be easier to boot. CH3C>5D>665C(2) also works.

 

2C loops would go like [2C>j.B>j.C>2C] or [2C>j.B>2C>j.B] until the last 2C possible where you'd 6C>41236B>3C>Distortion for that 4K+

 

3C has less recovery. If 6D had higher level there'd be blood in the streets. We could get away with anything.

 

Assuming no shadow nerfs to 2C, 5B>2C>6D>j.C>665B is a loop as well as a blockstring. 2C>TKj.236C is easier, more damaging, and more available than 6B>TK ever was. I'm gonna be looking for 2C>IAD>j.236C(backwords hit)~j.214A (Back at you)>ender.

 

If you need a new CH2C combo try 2C>665C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C>j.214B for 3.1K.

[NecroTheReaper]

For 2C CH's thougb, I'd normally go into fatal loops, but thats not possible anymore. That combo would be what I'd use though in the given situation if I could confirm it. Though, 2C confirms will be a loooot easier seeing as we can do 2C>j.B or 2C CH>9>2C>etc.

[Myoro]

Dogura's early musings

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1NmJl_CUAAWMOZ.jpg

 

Four more years!

 

This is prolly some of the best news on the character in awhile. Other tier lists seem to be placing him around C tier now. But again this is still early stuff.

 

Edit: I've heard unconfirmed rumors about Nu-Swords piercing dolls in 2.0. Can anyone confirm this? It's going to change the match-up a lot and not in a good way. Considering she's already rising in tier it could be very bad.

[NecroTheReaper]

We do get a faster way at calling out her swords though, so its more risky for her to throw them out if she'll just get CH'd. At least thats my impression so far since Lanto is faster and causes slide on regular hit.

Honestly, Lanto causing slide on CH seems like a great buff to neutral, amd it sounds like iit'd be favorable on trade.

[NecroTheReaper]

A cute, kinda gimmicky solo oki option after ending a corner combo. Do 3C>delay 41236B and it beats rolls depending on how late you delay it, as well as either hitting meaty, recovering before they tech to block dp's, and more. Since its all based on timing, only forward roll is really beat regardless, but that wiff can be used for a lot of mind games

[Myoro]

Honestly 5/2B is my first pick. 5B catches rolls and goes into high damage with 2C 2B catches late tech and also goes into 2C or 5B depending on how you like to confirm. Does Gad Leis beat quick wake-up too? (Or rather is it immune to being punished by smart quick techs.) Because that may be amazing. Otherwise neutral jump j.C>2A/5B might be superior for its roll catching safe jump goodness.

 

If this is applicable I can see it having a place in 2.0.

 

On the plus side this gives my Gad Leis starter combos a reason to exist.

 

41236B>5B>5C(2)>j.B>delay>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3507DMG/+25HT/IG free]

 

41236B>5B>6B>TKj.236C>665C(2)>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [3806DMG/+/-0HT/IG free]

 

These should both work for free no less. If you did 3C>5D>41236B and caught them, this would be perfect because you'd get a full Ig gauge, phenomenal damage and a 3C ender. The question is, is 5D too much of a delay for 41236B to be used for oki?

 

Of course if you had the IG for the job you could just do:

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C~j.214Bj.B>2C>6C>CT>5C(2)>4D>3C [4690DMG/+4HT/-3000IG]

 

or

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C~j.214Bj.B>2C>6C>22A>4D>3C [4353DMG/+31HT/-3000IG]

 

or

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>CT>5C(2)>4D>3C [4512DMG/+3HT/-2000IG]

 

or

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>CT>3C [4246DMG/+3HT/-1000IG]

 

or

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>22A [3940DMG/+26HT/-1000IG]

 

or

 

41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C(1)>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>SMP 236C [3934DMG/+28HT/-1000IG]

 

^How this last one works is you have to space it so that the wrist of SMP lauger hits the foe. if you hit on the last frames of 236C you can safejump j.C them.

[NecroTheReaper]

Like I said, its all about how you delay it. I was just curious since crouching combos (x>5C>6C) are really easy to get either free damage or good oki by inputting 41236B. If they tech, you're at like +3 or +5 or somethin like that. They don't have the option to roll or delay tech cuz 41236B will pick them up into a bluebeat combo with no ignis cost. A lot of prople try to jump out if they instant tech, which is even better for you when we get air grab combos.

[Myoro]

So I did the following while practicing our fuzzy.

 

j.B>dj.C>dj.2D>dj.B>dj.236C>5B>2C>236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [2987DMG/+21HT/-1000IG]

 

but as it is our fuzzy this is the more likely combo =)

 

dj.C>dj.2D>dj.B>dj.236C>5B>2C>236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3143DMG/+22HT/-1000IG]

 

I should mention that I have yet to test this on everyone, which is why it's not in the combo thread.

 

What do we do when we want to burn Ignis meter and get more damage from this? What's the highest damage we can get with 50% gauge full IG and no overdrive?

 

Kay so I can't get the fuzzy to work on Koko.

 

If j.236C doesn't come out before Rel lands, it means they have a short standing hurtbox, you can do a quick 66B>TKj.236C and salvage the combo. If you can manage the fuzzy on characters like Kagura or Kokonoe, this is the route you want to take.

 

j.B>dj.C>dj.2D>dj.B>66B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B [2821DMG/+20HT/-1000]

 

dj.C>dj.2D>dj.B>66B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B [2956DMG/+22HT/-1000]

[Myoro]

So apparently CH3C>IAD>delay>j.C>2C always crosses up. Even from max distance. It's amazingly useful.

[Myoro]

I've begun using 214B>(optional 22C)>214D/236D/214C as mix-up when the opponent is full screen and waking up or blocking. The real kicker is all of these options land the opponent in hitstun and can be cloaked by having Ignis off the edge of the screen.

 

I need more ways to involve this in my playstile effectively, but I thought I'd share.

 

So how's Xrd everybody?

[NecroTheReaper]

My only issue with stuff like that is it really only helps if ypu 236C SMP yourself somehow. Otherwise, I feel like itd be better getting back on top of them. Plus the option of jumping is still available to them... and I hate people jumping. Though, seeing them get caught by 214C mid airdash sounds tasty.

[Myoro]

It's all part of the Relius zoning for bullies toolkit I'm putting together. I'm dabbling in solo Ignis fighting now that I've dabbled in solo Relius XD

 

Stuff like j.4D(air hit)>4D AUB their air tech>Tus to get them blocking. Is an ineresting thing I've played with at full screen. After 214B our options for Ignis zoning are pretty great and j.4D is nearly instant which makes for a great punish to airdashers.

 

If they barrier block 4D you can play the 214C/2D/214B game all the while advancing on the opponent.

 

If they get rowdy with Ignis you can score a CH2D into a full combo.

 

I'm developing more and more solo Ignis stuff as silly as that sounds/is. I think it'll be especially useful considering Ignis' new stalking hobby she's picked up in CP2.

[Dusty]

It's all part of the Relius zoning for bullies toolkit I'm putting together. I'm dabbling in solo Ignis fighting now that I've dabbled in solo Relius XD

 

Stuff like j.4D(air hit)>4D AUB their air tech>Tus to get them blocking. Is an ineresting thing I've played with at full screen. After 214B our options for Ignis zoning are pretty great and j.4D is nearly instant which makes for a great punish to airdashers.

 

If they barrier block 4D you can play the 214C/2D/214B game all the while advancing on the opponent.

 

If they get rowdy with Ignis you can score a CH2D into a full combo.

 

I'm developing more and more solo Ignis stuff as silly as that sounds/is. I think it'll be especially useful considering Ignis' new stalking hobby she's picked up in CP2.

 

Makes alot of sense assuming that the pincer state will make it harder to wack Ignis of the startup/recovery of her moves. I also hope that Ignis will have guaranteed opposite block push in pincer to nullify barrier and free blockstun on command with pincer state 6D. I wish that some JP Relius would training mode some pincer specific blockstrings to see if we can set up anything different. Pincer state has so much to be explored.

[Myoro]

Makes alot of sense assuming that the pincer state will make it harder to wack Ignis of the startup/recovery of her moves. I also hope that Ignis will have guaranteed opposite block push in pincer to nullify barrier and free blockstun on command with pincer state 6D. I wish that some JP Relius would training mode some pincer specific blockstrings to see if we can set up anything different. Pincer state has so much to be explored.

 

I agree, Pincer is pretty much /THE/ new tool of the CP2 update, and it's potential is great. I have 50-some ideas of applications of it and I can't wait to get my hands on it. It very clearly has its uses in neutral.

 

It looks like it keeps opposite push back, unless she crosses over again (Like j.2D in some pincer situations.) I too wish the JP Players had more to show and tell, but I guess we'll just play the waiting game. 

 

The most pressing things on my mind are:

 

-Will it allow use of both Laugers midscreen?

-will things like (Pincer)>5B>3C>214A>2A/5B work?

-Does 6D have an improved hitbox so it won't whiff when Ignis is close to/on top of the opponent?

-What can we do with Pincer set-up to get Tus out mid combo (Tus has improved P2 on all three hits so it'll be a lot better in combos)

-Will Relius be able to undo Pincer easily should he want his blockstrings to move the opponent forward.

 

Some things not related to pincer that are on my mind are:

 

-OD allegedly buffs all of Ignis' moves in CP2, what does it do for 214D/236D?

-How can we combo into air hit 6A midscreen and meterless?

-How do we use 2D's new air hit effect?

-Can 4D's New float pattern be used in combos?

-Now that Duo Bios has great P1/P2 what kind of combos can we get off it?

-When's CP2?

 

I wonder if we might end up receiving the 2.1 version by the time this update sees consoles.

[NecroTheReaper]

Pincer seems like it'll be the way to punish people who like to barrier a bit too much. I've seen it used a few times, and the push block is indeed towards you while in pincer, but typically they mix them up to fast to where it means anything. I will say pincer state does seem to be very distracting even though all ignis normals are mid attacks. Seems like people panic in pincer state.

[Myoro]

What a ghost town...

 

So I found something interesting. The using the following method I determined that you can use j.236C~j.214B to initiate the Vinum glitch

 

5B>3C>236C~214A>66B>TKj.236C>Rapid>airdash>j.B>j.236C~j.214B>vinum

 

Not completely sure how we can utilize this better than the already existent routes into Vinum glitch (IE 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C~214B>vinum glitch)

 

But new info is always fun. Since 6A also forces tech (for now) I wonder if we could get Vinum glitch off it... 

 

Now on the question side of things. DOES our Fuzzy work on Kokonoe? how do I safely get into the fuzzy from Oki or pressure? What distance from the corner can I initiate the Fuzzy from? What's our Ignis optimal, damage optimal, and OD combos from the Fuzzy?

 

What is the mind game behind j.214B oki? Does timing the airdash differently change anything? Does the height at which I 236C~214B change anything?What moves cover what in our 214B oki? What is the proper way to use Tus in 3C oki? What nasty thing can we do with an opponent that won't airtech for a 4D reset? What is the optimal move for attempting to tech someone into spikes? Can we utilize that grab and attack on the same frame thing with 4D and airgrabs?

[Dusty]

Fuzzy doesn't work on the dam cat (Kokonoe).

 

You can initiate the Fuzzy from a simple 3C>6D>(Deep)J.B>J.C or 2B/3C Proceed to laugh at your opponent and feel nice.

 

I like to use 2B as it gives me a safety net to confirm and 2B's prorate isn't very bad so you still get pretty good damage. You can 3C>6D>Crush Trigger if you want to super dirty low option with damage and auto hit confirm.

 

From Oki after 3C>Tus knock down in the corner you can time your jump to hit after they block the third hit of tus to be gap-less and still have Ignis recover in time to J.2D to convert the fuzzy.

 

You have to be pretty close to the opponent to hit the fuzzy but you don't have to be breathing on them when you jump (although I always find it easier to do it when I'm really close to the opponent).

 

I'm pretty sure that all the standard combos and standard OD combos work off the fuzzy. Personally I don't really care about optimizing damage, I'm more concerned about preserving Ignis and getting the next knock down. I feel like Relius' damage off his standard BnB's is high enough as it is and it's not worth it to squeeze out an extra 300-400 damage (Unless it's going to kill ofcourse).

 

After J.214B knock down I usually just hit the floor and run. 5B will cover quick get up, forward roll and meaty them. If you run a bit further 5B will catch backwards roll but then you lose a meaty. The one option you have to look out for is delay tech.

 

I don't really like the Air Dash option because it's a bit easier to disrespect and I feel like midscreen the ground is a safer place to be than in the air. You have more options to respond to things when you're on the ground as apposed to in the air.

 

The proper way to use 3C tus Oki is different Midscreen than it is in the corner. For the corner you have 1 stop shop timing to cover all your options. Midscreen gets alittle dicey.

[Errol]

pretty sure koko is the hardest to fuzzy in BB. lowest standing guard hurtbox in the game.  also lowest crouching guard hurtbox.

[Myoro]

pretty sure koko is the hardest to fuzzy in BB. lowest standing guard hurtbox in the game.  also lowest crouching guard hurtbox.

 

So wait, you can Fuzzy Koko?

 

Thanks for all the advice Dusty, this is great stuff!