Guilty Gear Stories (spoilers abound!)

[Suzaku]

Okay, I reread the GGXX story mode stuff on Axl and Raven, and assuming it's still canon, I really think that everyone kind of misinterpreted the "parallel existence" stuff. Most people seemed to jump up and assume it meant that Raven was Axl from the future... But what is a "parallel existence", exactly? Based on their blood types, birthdays, voice actors, memories, etc., it can't be as simple as them being the same person. Maybe it simply means that they are supposed to exist in tandem, at parallel points? That Man does say something which I think is probably important: when they enter the same space, one of them cannot remain in a fixed point and the other cannot disappear. Well, we can pretty much assume that the first point means Raven's presence causes Axl to timeslip, and we know that Raven has at least been alive since the Dark Ages, so if Axl appeared at any point in time between then and the present (and presumably into the future and potentially into the past), he'd likely timeslip due to Raven existing within the same space. Now, the second point? Does it just mean that one timeslips and the other remains stationary? Or maybe, just maybe, could it means that Raven's immortality is a result of Axl's presence, and he is thus unable to "disappear"? Now, we know that I-No proved that the law of causality can be broken (which is to say that the future isn't a fixed destiny), but could it be possible that Raven is immortal because his death would cause a time paradox? And once again, there's the matter of Crow, who shares both Raven's voice actor and, more or less, name, which would be one hell of a coincidence. Maybe Raven is Axl's ancestor? Or, somehow, descendant? Maybe he's related to Megumi, somehow? Too many questions, not enough answers. Ishiwatari's reponse might indicate they'll never be answered because it might not really be a canon plot element to begin with.

[Blade]

I told you before, Axl and Raven are like polar opposite magnets, but one is fixed in rotation around the other... Raven is the constant...that means he's undying and immortal and does not change throughout history. A fixed point. Axl is the variable, he time jumps (especially when near what appears to be a crisis point in time or perhaps just being near Raven). If you liken it to the Earth revolving around the Sun, it makes more sense. On a somewhat more surprising note: Assuming Valentine is a Gear...why would she be sublimating her own kind? I could understand Sol's motivation to kill other Gears, but why Valentine? Yet another question to be answered in the grand scheme of things.

[Circuitous]

I don't see why Axl and Raven have to be related in any way, genealogically speaking. Each exists because the other exists, and they can never co-exist.

[Lou_Cypher]

Assuming Valentine is a Gear...why would she be sublimating her own kind? I could understand Sol's motivation to kill other Gears, but why Valentine? Yet another question to be answered in the grand scheme of things.

Didn't you say we still don't know if Valentine's a Gear or not? Anyways, maybe Valentine doesn't know she's a Gear...if she is one at least. That or she has something like one-half of the Key or something.

[Blade]

That indeed I did, but it does not explain why she achieves a gear-like form and has something to do with That Man.

[Circuitous]

Justice = Gear Clone of Justice = Clone of Gear = Gear No? On the flip side, Aria = Human Clone of Aria = Clone of Human = Human

[Sunnyday]

I told you before, Axl and Raven are like polar opposite magnets, but one is fixed in rotation around the other...

Raven is the constant...that means he's undying and immortal and does not change throughout history. A fixed point.

Axl is the variable, he time jumps (especially when near what appears to be a crisis point in time or perhaps just being near Raven).

If you liken it to the Earth revolving around the Sun, it makes more sense.

Hmm... interesting.

a somewhat more surprising note:

Assuming Valentine is a Gear...why would she be sublimating her own kind? I could understand Sol's motivation to kill other Gears, but why Valentine? Yet another question to be answered in the grand scheme of things.

I think that the only thing that can take Valentine down is a Gear. That might be the reason.

Didn't you say we still don't know if Valentine's a Gear or not? Anyways, maybe Valentine doesn't know she's a Gear...if she is one at least. That or she has something like one-half of the Key or something.

That indeed I did, but it does not explain why she achieves a gear-like form and has something to do with That Man.

You know guys Valentine always makes me wonder, i have look at the whole storyline in GGXXoverture. And i always had this feeling that Valentine is program in such a matter that even she did not knew she was a Gear, let alone that the ones she sublimate where Gears as well.

It might explain on why she sublimate other Gears.

Also Valentine keeps saying about a certain feeling she has when she met Sol on a number of scenes. I think this feeling valentine was having was telling her that she is a Gear but failed to understand that feeling.

There was also something i notice in the scene where Valentine keeps saying: "i don't feel so good" like 5 times in a row, before her voice suddenly changes and Valentine changes into a Gear like form.

It is the change in voice that really makes me wonder. could it be someone else speaking trough Valentine tongue?

But than if it is.. who is this someone than?

[Blade]

You're referring to a Gear's sense of self-awareness and the capacity to process and interpret information as most other living things do. Izuna said it best...he knew how to walk and talk, but identifying things like emotions and what is determined as 'self' came later... In Valentine's case...she was being undermined at every turn by Sol, Sin, and Ky...no matter what she did...and because she didn't know what "frustration" was...she didn't know what she was experiencing except that it was a negative emotion. In this way, yet again, Izuna proves that the difference between Gear development and Yokai development is very similar if not identical in certain traits. Just like how we don't always have verbal words to describe human emotions...and not all emotions fall under destinct categories or "temperatures" of emotion. This strikes me as strange, as Valentine was "underdeveloped" to the point she couldn't process emotions, and was strictly using command logic based on what her "mother" told her. Later on she says "I don't care what mother wants!" which is somewhat revolutionary in her development, somewhat like a borg breaking away from the collective. An identity. A self that makes decisions for itself. As to what that has to do with Gear sublimation...it's my understanding she was following her mother's orders from the beginning, and if that meant destroying common gears, then so be it...it isn't Valentine who is at fault here but most likely her mother who has no respect for Gear-kind apparently, unlike Justice, who was ready and willing to rally for their sake (with exception of course to Testament's blood pact with her). Edit: Something to note about Gear self-awareness: in GGX it was mentioned that when Justice was sealed away, all Gears under her direct command became docile to the point of not being able to do common things like eating or sleeping...they just became inert. However, this is most likely due to the idea that Gears by default are given commands upon creation, they do not HAVE to think, and so they are not used to thinking on their own. Compare and contrast this with Justice, Solaria, and Valentine, and you get the feeling that command-type gears are more than just a step above normal gears. Justice was a command-type and this was no question, however in Solaria's case, she was a developmental command-type...she had not perfected her ability to command other gears, hence her "singing" only gave Sol a headache and literally killed others. In Valentine's case...she was actually able to manipulate Sin and erect various complex magics from barriers to distortion gates. She utilized a type of command that was even capable of controlling Izuna's Yokai friends, which says something about how similarly influenced Yokai are compared to Gears. Finally, take a look at the likes of Dr. Paradigm: while he probably isn't the first Gear to reach a state of self-awareness, he mentions that at some point in his existence (he admits to being manufactured), he realized he was self-aware, outside the realms of commands given him by Justice, and outside the realms of any encounters with other Gears similar to the command-type. If such as himself can gain conscious thought, it's a wonder if any and all Gears would eventually reach that state, no matter how beastial they might be, to evolve beyond their own process and programming. Obviously humanoid Gears like Testament and Sol would more than likely retain some semblance of human consciousness they aren't likely to "gain" self-awareness as they already "have" it.

[Lou_Cypher]

I have another theory.....what? You know when That Man said he and Sol already 'killed' Aria? Obviously he seemed to be slightly joking about that fact. Justice could be Aria's clone...then got turned into a Gear for reasons unknown. Something that Aria may deeply resent. Valentine could be considered another clone of Aria...but not turned into a Gear? Meh.

[Soryiu]

You're referring to a Gear's sense of self-awareness and the capacity to process and interpret information as most other living things do.

Izuna said it best...he knew how to walk and talk, but identifying things like emotions and what is determined as 'self' came later...

In Valentine's case...she was being undermined at every turn by Sol, Sin, and Ky...no matter what she did...and because she didn't know what "frustration" was...she didn't know what she was experiencing except that it was a negative emotion. In this way, yet again, Izuna proves that the difference between Gear development and Yokai development is very similar if not identical in certain traits.

Just like how we don't always have verbal words to describe human emotions...and not all emotions fall under destinct categories or "temperatures" of emotion.

This strikes me as strange, as Valentine was "underdeveloped" to the point she couldn't process emotions, and was strictly using command logic based on what her "mother" told her.

Later on she says "I don't care what mother wants!" which is somewhat revolutionary in her development, somewhat like a borg breaking away from the collective. An identity. A self that makes decisions for itself.

As to what that has to do with Gear sublimation...it's my understanding she was following her mother's orders from the beginning, and if that meant destroying common gears, then so be it...it isn't Valentine who is at fault here but most likely her mother who has no respect for Gear-kind apparently, unlike Justice, who was ready and willing to rally for their sake (with exception of course to Testament's blood pact with her).

Edit: Something to note about Gear self-awareness: in GGX it was mentioned that when Justice was sealed away, all Gears under her direct command became docile to the point of not being able to do common things like eating or sleeping...they just became inert. However, this is most likely due to the idea that Gears by default are given commands upon creation, they do not HAVE to think, and so they are not used to thinking on their own.

Compare and contrast this with Justice, Solaria, and Valentine, and you get the feeling that command-type gears are more than just a step above normal gears. Justice was a command-type and this was no question, however in Solaria's case, she was a developmental command-type...she had not perfected her ability to command other gears, hence her "singing" only gave Sol a headache and literally killed others. In Valentine's case...she was actually able to manipulate Sin and erect various complex magics from barriers to distortion gates. She utilized a type of command that was even capable of controlling Izuna's Yokai friends, which says something about how similarly influenced Yokai are compared to Gears.

Finally, take a look at the likes of Dr. Paradigm: while he probably isn't the first Gear to reach a state of self-awareness, he mentions that at some point in his existence (he admits to being manufactured), he realized he was self-aware, outside the realms of commands given him by Justice, and outside the realms of any encounters with other Gears similar to the command-type.

If such as himself can gain conscious thought, it's a wonder if any and all Gears would eventually reach that state, no matter how beastial they might be, to evolve beyond their own process and programming. Obviously humanoid Gears like Testament and Sol would more than likely retain some semblance of human consciousness they aren't likely to "gain" self-awareness as they already "have" it.

Hmm, crackpot theory time! you mentioned Sol's headaches and that brought to mind another question people have been asking. What if when Sol spared Dizzy in his endings he did so because her status as a command gear has some effect on him (small I must admit, but enought to make him second guess his natural judgement)?

[Suzaku]

Justice wasn't able to control him, since he predates the other Gears as the Prototype Gear, so I don't really think that's likely. It's more likely that he just recognized her or understand he didn't need to kill her, for whatever reason.

[Blade]

Sol usually gets "headaches" when there's a certain level of Magic distortion or harmonic frequency relating to magic chords. It isn't always from Command Type Gears, although in the times it has been Gears, it's sort of a dull painful reaction that builds in proximity until they release their suppressed powers.

When Valentine fully transforms, Sol mentions that his headache finally went away. Whether that's a metaphor for doing things the long way around is speculation at this point, but usually not.

This is what happened the last time he had a particularly *nasty* headache (from Solaria's song):

While it seems it turned on Sol's intense flame powers, it may have given him a Dragon-Install-like reaction. Keep in mind, Solaria wasn't even trying to summon him, or was fully aware of her Command-Type powers. The power itself ranges from manipulation of magic beings, to hacking whole chord enchantments and Gear Sublimation as what we see from Valentine.

Taking into consideration that the Soul Sinker System (Ghosts+Master Ghost+Servants = Self) is an extention of the person's own body, and not only that, but a body's "code" hacked via access to the Backyard, it might very well mean that the harmonic frequency of "Gear music" is a means of rewriting codes of existence on varying levels.

Add to this the very *idea* that Sol's harmonic algorhythm in his body was the "core design" of The Cube which was a major man-made structure within the Backard and you realize that there are upper echelons of hacking going on here via harmonic resonance.

As to how that relates to Justice or Dizzy, I can only say this:

Sol can react to the music/song. But that doesn't mean he is swayed by it.

When they finally reached the Backyard, Dr. Paradigm mentioned how dense the pressure was in that place, most likely referring to how steep a resonance they had to deal with was. Sol simply says to grit your teeth and remember your name...which hints to me that he must be under a lot of physical strain and/or pain in such a dense place considered the 'origin' of Magic Energy.

I don't claim to know exactly how the music of Gears works...except that, because they are beings of magic+animal+human DNA...they are able to manipulate magic elements and code with varying degrees of ability...Command Types most of all...to say nothing of the Prototype Gear.

[DonMungMung]

While I love Ishiwatari for his pretty pictures and songs, fuck him with all these musical allegories >( So wait, that pic of Sol is from the novel? I thought it was just an illustration he made for the artbook haha. Er, anyway, Justice wasn't able to control Sol 'cause he was made before him, right? It makes me wonder why the PWAB or whatever didn't try to create a command-type Gear that can affect Gears retroactively. ... ....Guess that'd be too easy, huh?

[Blade]

No actually that might be harder...if you think of it in terms of software code. If the original raw code were kept concealed (Sol) and a beta were developed and released (Justice), everyone would only be able to retroactively make copies based on the beta. It's like how M.u.g.e.n. was made by Elecbyte...everybody knows how it works, but to this day they don't know the source code.

[DonMungMung]

(^ so very appropriate)

But wouldn't have been possible to make a command-type Gear that is only able to command those manufactured before it?

Even if the retroactive command-type couldn't control Justice, it could still theoretically control other, lesser Gears, and have an all-out Gear brawl fest, rather than them versus humans. (less "causalities that matter" that way, I suppose)

Not much of a software/technology kid, but it seems improbable that a very old program can still "speak" to a new one. Rather, new programs are oftentimes able to understand older programs. Backwards compatibility, I guess?

.....At least in terms of photoShop haha.

Well, either way, it didn't happen, so I guess it's moot. Although if the apocalypse does happen with a diabolical fembot leading an army of animal/human creatures, I'll know what to suggest to the bigwigs!

[Wendy]

I was reading the spanish version of the Lightning the Argent novel summary. and this is said:

...The medicine can to heal any disease or injured because it transfor human cells to gears cells...

this medicine:

is a substance for transform human cells to gear cells? OR

is only gear cells. and it can transform a human in a gear?

sorry for this strange question. But if is correct the second question, there are a things in doubt: half-gears? Is it possible? in a sexual relationship, human + gear= always the children born like a complete gear. (sorry for the redundant;any source where the gears cell comes is possible for became a human in a gear)

[Adelheid]

Sol Badguy waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air.

This might be the greatest thing ever.

CHAPTER ONE: WHAT IT MEANS

Sol Baadgruy was studying in his was studying laboratoried.

Fellow scientist cow-orker Aria said "Sol Badguyt what are you working on"

"UI have discovered new radoactive isatope but it is so vollatile that it does not have a half-life but quarter-life so we must observe with hasty"

Juts then a gear went on Arias head OH NO WHERE DID GEAR COME FROM! SHol wents to get his zippo sword ut it was missing so hhad to borrow a claymore sword. He hits teh gear and Arria was okay but her head was cut

"Watch where you swings at me just kidding thanks"

" HAha" They laughed

"Whait oh no where id isotop?"

"UIt is been stoled!"

CHAPTER TWO: THEY REVOCER TEH ISOTROPE BUT THEY DON'T

Sol and Aria arrived at teh gear scene where a that man from the game said "I have take the isotope and it will cause meltdown!"

"NO, NOT ALL OF FRANCE!" Which swas target of where they were and it was nice place and ky lives there.

"IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO MY DEMANS"

"TOO LATE" and the isotope hit quarterlife and teh room was slowly become vaporize

"Ew must escapes out of here fastly" but Aria was already blowed to smitheroons.

CHAPTER THREE: DESTRUACTION IS IMMINANT

"This is Sol Badguy how do we contain teh meltdown? I know!"

And he used magics to push henemy headquarters into a magic so France wouldnt melt down and it would only go off harmless in Atlantic ocean.

"Hooray I scucceeded at winning the mission"

"Not so fast, Mr. Sol"

What happens next? You deiside!

EDIT: This is canon

[maraxusofkelds]

this might be the greatest thing ever.

Chapter one: What it means

sol baadgruy was studying in his was studying laboratoried.

Fellow scientist cow-orker aria said "sol badguyt what are you working on"

"ui have discovered new radoactive isatope but it is so vollatile that it does not have a half-life but quarter-life so we must observe with hasty"

juts then a gear went on arias head oh no where did gear come from! Shol wents to get his zippo sword ut it was missing so hhad to borrow a claymore sword. He hits teh gear and arria was okay but her head was cut

"watch where you swings at me just kidding thanks"

" haha" they laughed

"whait oh no where id isotop?"

"uit is been stoled!"

chapter two: They revocer teh isotrope but they don't

sol and aria arrived at teh gear scene where a that man from the game said "i have take the isotope and it will cause meltdown!"

"no, not all of france!" which swas target of where they were and it was nice place and ky lives there.

"if you do not agree to my demans"

"too late" and the isotope hit quarterlife and teh room was slowly become vaporize

"ew must escapes out of here fastly" but aria was already blowed to smitheroons.

Chapter three: Destruaction is imminant

"this is sol badguy how do we contain teh meltdown? I know!"

and he used magics to push henemy headquarters into a magic so dallas wouldnt melt down and it would only go off harmless in atlantic ocean.

"hooray i scucceeded at winning the mission"

"not so fast, mr. Sol"

what happens next? You deiside!

Edit: This is canon

lol

[Blade]

I was reading the spanish version of the Lightning the Argent novel summary. and this is said:

...The medicine can to heal any disease or injured because it transfor human cells to gears cells...

this medicine:

is a substance for transform human cells to gear cells? OR

is only gear cells. and it can transform a human in a gear?

sorry for this strange question. But if is correct the second question, there are a things in doubt: half-gears? Is it possible? in a sexual relationship, human + gear= always the children born like a complete gear. (sorry for the redundant;any source where the gears cell comes is possible for became a human in a gear)

To clarify, they are utilizing Vitae which is a substance derived from Gears that is intended to accelerate the human cellular structure's healing rate. While this doesn't necessarily mean they are "converted into gears" by a strong definition...these people reacted violently to Solaria's song to the point that a whole village was dead as a result.

If the process were perfect, Gear cells would be made and replicated, however this does not happen.

[Soryiu]

(^ so very appropriate)

But wouldn't have been possible to make a command-type Gear that is only able to command those manufactured before it?

Even if the retroactive command-type couldn't control Justice, it could still theoretically control other, lesser Gears, and have an all-out Gear brawl fest, rather than them versus humans. (less "causalities that matter" that way, I suppose)

Not much of a software/technology kid, but it seems improbable that a very old program can still "speak" to a new one. Rather, new programs are oftentimes able to understand older programs. Backwards compatibility, I guess?

.....At least in terms of photoShop haha.

Well, either way, it didn't happen, so I guess it's moot. Although if the apocalypse does happen with a diabolical fembot leading an army of animal/human creatures, I'll know what to suggest to the bigwigs!

ok, (I haven't read the novel or read translations of the drama cd's yet so I'm basing my posts off what info I get from the games and what I find here, but I think I'm starting to grasp the picture.) wouldn't they have to get ahold of Sol and anylze his ["code", "notes", "chords" whaterver they call the stuff that gears are made of?] so that the newer one's could recognize and lock into his "essence?"

[Wendy]

To clarify, they are utilizing Vitae which is a substance derived from Gears that is intended to accelerate the human cellular structure's healing rate. While this doesn't necessarily mean they are "converted into gears" by a strong definition...these people reacted violently to Solaria's song to the point that a whole village was dead as a result.

If the process were perfect, Gear cells would be made and replicated, however this does not happen.

thanks for the explanation blade =3

[Suzaku]

Whoa, whoa. Just hold on a minute, Blade. I'm pretty positive that picture isn't from the novel. You're maybe mixing it up with the other one where he's covered in flames, but Sol definitely wasn't dressed like that in the novel.

[Blade]

Hmm...you may be right. I'll fix it. Though I was almost certain ne POSITIVE Sol had a freaky reaction from Solaria's music.

[Blade]

Decided to post this dialogue for historical purposes.

Paradigm: These are traces of the gate. She must have escaped into the Backyard.

Sol: Valentine...I sense her close by.

Paradigm: But, it seems we are a little late. In order to open this...

*Backyard Opens*

Paradigm: What!?

Paradigm: The gate is opening?

That Man: Long time no see...Frederick.

Sol: That voice!

Sol: ...Tch, what is this? What's with that look?

That Man: Yes...staying as an adult doesn't help me much.

Izuna: Wh...Who is that?

Sol: He is the creator of Justice...the source of the Crusades...

Sol: And the man that turned my body into a Gear.

Paradigm: The Gear Maker!

That Man: We really don't have the time to talk about me right now...

Sol: Tch, what do you mean by that? Gonna open the gate, and let us through, are you?

That Man: If someone strays too far into the Backyard, their soul breaks down under the pressure of the information's density.

That Man: Do you think you can endure it? Let me see for myself.

Sol: Bring it on...

*Sol goes Dragon Install*

Sol: HAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!

That Man: It's grown this much already...So that is your karma.

That Man: Still, I'm delighted. Just as I thought, you're only thinking of me.

*Battle Begins*

Sol: What the hell are you trying to pull?

That Man: This attack? Or do you mean our reunion?

Sol: I don't have time to mess with you. All these problems have to do with the Cube you created.

Sol: What do you intend to do!?

That Man: Everything started within these past few centuries. The Cube can no longer take anymore.

That Man: I know this is all so sudden, and I apologize for that. ...But for now, I want you to focus on Valentine.

That Man: If she comes in contact with the center of the Cube, humanity will most likely become extinct.

Sol: Valentine...What is she? What's more, that appearance...

That Man: An illegitimate child of a merciless apocalypse...At its present stage, it has no consciousness. But if it makes contact, "something" will be broken.

Sol: A merciless apocalypse?

That Man: We have no time to talk.

Sol: Tch, How the hell do I know if you're just using me to kill Valentine?

That Man: ...Hmhm. Well, I am self-righteous after all.

*That Man is "silenced".*

That Man: It seems we're going to make it...

Sol: You get on my nerves. [Mezawari nan da yo!/You're an eyesore!]

*End of Battle*

That Man: I'm impressed. You can probably adapt to the Backyard's tuning with the way you are now.

That Man: ...You've become a warrior, Frederick.

Sol: It's your damn fault. You made me that way, you bastard.

That Man: Now go. There is no time to waste. I've given you an effect that will hold for a while even beyond the gate.

Sol: Hold it!

Sol: Damn!

Paradigm: I don't understand it. It looks as though That Man is trying to save us.

Izuna: I don't know why he's being nice all of a sudden, but we don't have time to doubt him. Let's move!

[Blade]

Interesting Potemkin Factoids (from GG Judgment): Jam calls him "Pumpkin Buster" for a nickname. (He asks if its a metaphor...hehe.) Chipp just calls him "Gloomy Face". His Barcode ID is # 4595605381, which I believe is the bar code on the CD case for Daisuke's Sheer Heart Attack Album by Queen.