[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Blade]

If I-No is pure then I'm the guy who invented the Backyard (and I'm not).

 

In other news: found some music info for people who might be interested to know who did "Heavy Day" / "Lily" / "Ride the Fire".

 

Composer: Daisuke Ishiwatari

Arrangements: Norichika Sato

Lyrics: Daisuke Ishiwatari / Junya C. Motomura

Vocals: Naoki Hashimoto

Guitar: Toshihiro Kajihara

Bass: Atsuishi Hasegawa

[Clousephinat]

I said many times that the game has decent graphics.

 

Where? Because I remember how you were complaining about how it seems that BB is EVERYTHING better than GG, using as a pretext among other things that BB has better graphics and so, it's much better (and GG is a fighting game from the 1998 to begin with).

 

If you are trying to keep with this nonsense at least try a little harder, it's not fun at all.

 

Anyway... Back what I wanted to say, if the "problem" with Bedman lies with his mobility more than anything else, I'm fine with it. Bedman seems the type of character keeping the pressure on the ground anyway, maybe he's a little slow, which can be a negative thing since I like quick characters, but many things like 2S (or 2D? I'm not sure) reminds me of Bridget 2D because of the fact it can be used as a combo too depending of the target's distance, and I really love these things in a fighting game, being more than just doing always the "same".

[king of heart]

Say what you want about BB, at least it doesn't remove any characters or dumb down its gameplay.

So you think Dust loop is easier now ?

Actually its even harder than before.

Sol's Bandit Revolver used to be auto jump installed now it's not. You have to install it by yourself.

You never touched the game and you keep talking bullshit and I doubt that you have any actual experience with Guilty Gear at all.

Because good players love the game because they know what the hell going on.

Even if Xrd was dumbed down as you say.

It didn't and will never be as dumb as Blazblue.

In term of gameplay deepness.

[iBeK3n]

Honestly, just ignore EnemyOfJustice, please. Reading through what he's been saying gave me a headache.

 

If you are to answer to him, remember these facts:

 

- He does not know anything about game development.

- He has the kid mentality of : more is better.

- He acts like BB is superior to GG, lol.

 

Pardon his ignorance. Now, ask yourself: Are you willing to give in to his world of sadness just for the sake of having your opinion being completely ignored by this guy?

Your conscience is supposed to say: NO!

 

You have successfully dodged a troll!

 

Now, onto more important things: SIN KISKE. What do you people think he'll play like? Considering his hunger meter & special to special cancel mechanic, I'm assuming he might be a rushdown character. In terms of mixups, though, I am not sure just yet. Any news about overheads and whatnot? Being a Order Sol player, I've been pretty disappointed and honestly not very interested in GG Xrd. But seeing Sin popping up with some unique combat mechanics has potentially brought back that spark.

 

I'm really hoping that he turns out to have a good mixup game, as he could very well be my main until (or if) Order Sol comes back. But that's just wishful thinking. Realistically, I'm thinking he might have better pokes than Sol, not as good as Ky's, and a pressure game between both. If that's the case, he won't interest me a lot as I like characters that aren't so straight-forward. Crossing my fingers!

[shtkn]

reminder: no BB > GG or GG > BB talk please

 

this includes AllyofJustice, king of heart and others.

 

 

if i see it again, i'm banning you

[Jocelot]

Would kill to see Sin in action. I dont think a character short of Anji will get me off the Bedman bandwagon but I'm always hype to see new characters. I have a feeling Sin ain't the last either. Think we'll at least get one more.

[TeeJay]

Is Sin's eating more manual or is it automatic when he drains his gauge? I just had an epiphany that Ram's design is too similar to A.B.A.'s under the cloak to put her in the game. :P 

 

Speaking of random things, it would be nice if they put a photo mode in the game or allowed you to tweak angles like in the Bururaji vid. I'm actually looking forward to those perceived story mode cutscenes as well. I wonder if Sin's comic relief can make it to the level of Robo Ky's. 

 

Will this be the first GG (Of those I intend to play or have played) that has a challenge mode?

[AllyOfJustice]

I like people's mentality here: "if you don't agree with what I think, you're a troll!"

 

These people go against Daisuke Ishiwatari's statement of them intentionally simplifying Xrd. They simplified it, it's not me making it up. It's BEEN CONFIRMED.

Also, when I say Xrd has a smaller cast than Accent Core people also think it's trolling. 25 is more than 15. That's not trolling, it's fact.

 

Jesus Christ. Learn to differentiate your facts from opinions. If I said Blazblue is better, that's my opinion. If I said Xrd has only 15 characters right now, it's fact. These people think stating facts is trolling.

[DeathArcana]

I think Sin is going to be like a hybrid of Tsubaki and A.B.A.

[OneSanitarium]

Ability to change the camera angle would be really fun.i hope it's in as a bullshit option. Unless they want a certain witch to have her top on at those angles.

 

Sin's hunger mechanic, "The biggest feature of his fighting style is his ability to perform a special move then immediately activate a different special move." sounds similar to HD/BC things in KOF 2k2/XIII. I do wonder how he gains it back, presumably with a special move that has him eat. Can you cancel to that move and regain some of his Hunger Gauge? That would be pretty cool. Something like Normals>Special A>Special B>Eat RC>Normals>Special A>Special C or something is a kind of route that comes to mind.

[AllyOfJustice]

I hope Sin has a lot of command grabs. With different damage and animations depending on his hunger level. He should have a diving attack where he homes into the enemy from above and gets on top, starts pummeling.

 

Also, the flag should look like a flag when he goes into IK mode. His instant kill would be him knocking his opponent into the air and repeatedly sidewinder-ing (Sol Badguy influence) and then impaling him with lightning flag. "Yare yare daze"

[Akujikan]

For Sin, I would imagine that eating is an input so you can get what meter you can whenever you can. For me the real question is if its like AC HOS charge where you can cancel to it off of normals, or Slash HOS where its a standalone move that can't be canceled into. If its the latter, I'd imagine he'd have an Action Charge equivalent (cancel specials into meat-bun-to-the-face)to make his specials more accessible. Now I'm wandering a little far into Sin-is-Order-Sol wishlist territory, though. 

 

For a legitimately interesting thing that's not wishlisting, how do you think eating will interact with the RC system? Will it be Yellow/Red (if they're knocked down or whatever) while actively eating? Will it all be considered recovery frames and get a Purple to discourage people from burning meter to punish those who interrupt meal time? Will it not be cancelable at all? I can't wait to find out more about the nuts and bolts of that mechanic!

[OneSanitarium]

Obviously speculation, but I would imagine it would just be the standard rules applied to eating. Y/PRC if they aren't in hitstun, red if they are. I would also think it would be more similar to a projectile, in that a PRC would be way late, probably way later than the move would be gaining any HUNGAR GEIJI. Either gaining a set amount, or slowly over time, I don't see it acting too differently from that. It's certainly an exciting mechanic since we don't exactly know how it's handled yet.

[TheRealBobMan]

Nah, he should remove his eyepatch, his eye should turn into the confection witch from Madoka, and it should bite your head off.

 

 

It might help if instead of saying "dumbed down" you actually say "simplified".  You're making it sound like gameplay depth was removed, which isn't necessarily the case when simplifying things.  I would say the RISC gauge is simplified compared to the Guard Gauge from before.  I like the Guard Gauge more because you can see it drop below the neutral value, which helps you figure out when you should press on with your combo and when you end in knockdown.  However, the RISC gauge removes the guessing game for new players that comes with having the gauge be at 50% most of the time.  It's harder to figure out intuitively what it does that way, whereas with RISC only showing the positive values when a player blocks attacks and dropping back to empty over time or when they then get hit, it's a little easier to figure out what the meter does.  It also takes up a little less space and looks more stylish.

 

As you can figure that the gauge hit neutral at X point in a combo anyway, you haven't really given up that much information by removing the "below neutral" values from being displayed, so it's only "simplified" and not "dumbed down".  I'd like to have the old meter because it's what I'm used to, but I like how elegant the new one looks.  Having the meter only show positive values gives them a little more fidelity in describing just how full it is, as it doesn't have to dedicate 1/2 of the display to negative values.

 

 

 

 

I wont go into huge detail because this is the GG thread and not a BB thread, but your statement about GG having fewer wakeup options, or whatever it was, is misleading.  Here's what happens:

 

GG knockdown happens and you're waking up.  No matter who you're playing as, you can:

 

Commit to blocking the other player's string and wait for more options

Reversal Throw

Reversal Backdash

1-Frame Jump

IB immediately followed by another action

You can also use a reversal attack, even if you don't have a completely invul-on-startup move (the other player might try to throw or do some stylish shit, and everyone has 6P for upper body invul).  Most characters at least have 1-use of OTG burst or Reversal Gold Burst.

 

 

Now let's look at BB.  You can:

 

Emergency Tech Forward

Emergency Tech Backward

Lie there and risk getting hit but maybe avoid a forward/back tech bait

 

The third option gives you another tree of:

Delayed roll forward

Delayed roll back

Stand up

 

And all of this shit occurs before you use almost the exact same wakeup options that you would use in GG (you do them right after the tech)!  Except that throws in BB suck so you can't reversal throw.  And backdashes pre-patch in CP sucked so reversal backdash was a shit idea unless you were Tager, Kokonoe, or Valkenhein.  So uh... you have block, reversal attack (non "completely invul on startup" moves aren't as worth it as attacks are generally slower in BB and you can just throw break anyway), or 1use of Overdrive mode which has startup invul.

 

Putting a teching system in front of the wakeup options doesn't exactly make the game deeper, and the lack of the teching system doesn't cause the game to be "dumbed down".  You're putting a layer of "1/3 chance to get hit, 1/3 chance to escape, 1/3 chance to be put back into a defensive position" on each knockdown, which occurs before the yomi layers of oki/wakeup take place in games without the tech system.  It's not causing the yomi layers to get any deeper, it's just putting 2 layer deep decision in front of the wakeup game.  It's different in Smash because teching also changes your position, and position is more important in that game because you KO by pushing the other player past the blast lines, and there are platforms that might restrict oki options depending on which direction the player rolls.

 

 

I'll stop now.  I'd have stopped before this, but I don't want someone new to Dustloop to come into this thread looking for info on Xrd, see him complaining that Xrd is a dumbed down BB or whatever, and then see the discussion drop because "stop arguing" without an explanation that GG is still really deep.

 

 

Mike Z is right about stuff like 'command throw > YRC > punish whatever beat the throw attempt' being dumb though.  The more I think about it, the more I feel like we'll see meter chicken at high level play.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but it could put an emphasis on meter management and option selects over making cold reads.  On the one hand, it's more obvious to low/mid level players that "something exciting" happened when you see a YRC, but on the other hand, it's much more exciting to make those cold reads when you're playing.  We'll just have to see how the metagame advances when the game comes out.

 

 

 

Seriously though dude, stop complaining that Xrd doesn't have a lot of content WHEN THE CONTENT ISN'T ****ING FINISHED.  Are discs being pressed yet?  Is the game out?  Didn't think so.

 

They're going to add some kind of survival mode because it's already in the arcade version, and they know how successful it was with BB and P4A.  It'd be stupid not to include it when that kind of shit gets non-FG players to play fighting games.

They're going to add story mode because why the fuck wouldn't they add story mode?  The PS4 version would be FUCKING DONE RIGHT NOW if they weren't adding story mode.  The demos show that the VS game play is done, so what else is there?

Besides adding Sin I mean.

There's a chance that they'll add English dubbing if there's enough demand.  Send them an E-mail or something if you're passionate about that.

 

I heard the dubbing thing from a friend who was at AX for a lot more time than I was.  Not sure on the accuracy of the statement as I had a raging headache and was burned out from working insane hours, so I barely remember that he even said it.  I forget who he asked or if the info was volunteered at the Aksys Panel.  Maybe someone else has more info?

[D.R.F.]

About that yrc thing I hope some moves get the yrc removed and not just restricted to dps/reversal moves.

Stuff like supers, command throws, those things shouldnt also be yrc-able. That is a read and you should stick to it. Normals, stuff like hammer fall, im okay with. Also can we later give some midscreen shit to characters like I-No please arcsys?

[Dream Maker]

I don't have too much experience playing the game so I might be wrong, or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you guys are talking about... But as far as I understand the new RC system this "command throw option select with YRC" thing should already not be possible.

 

If you are able to YRC a move, it means you did the RC before the move even went active. So a YRCed command throw wouldn't even have caught the opponent in the first place.

 

To make this option select thing work you would have to PRC the throw, which is slower and not as meter efficient.

[TheRealBobMan]

Nah, YRC works on startup through active, assuming the active frames didn't connect (IE if the other player isn't in hit/block stun, which they wouldn't be if it whiffed).  If the throw has more than 1 active frame you can YRC on whiff and go for something else.

[Destin]

You know, some of the most knowledge people I have ever spoken to about fighting games run around on this thread.  But also some of the people with the least forum experience I have seen.  If you are arguing with AllyJ at this point, you just want something to talk about and are mucking things up for the rest of us.

 

As for the question of who has been high tier the longest/most stable, my vote goes for slayer.

 

XX-Super super stupid

#R-Super stupid

Slash- High tier

AC- back to topish

AC+R - Never played it.

 

Jam also has a pretty good showing, if you are willing to accept my postulate that she was much better in XX than everyone thinks she was.

 

X - best

XX- pretty damn good

#R - top tier

Slash - high tier (won SBO teams solo)

AC - very high.

[youcanwonder]

Waiting for more announcements

[ElvenShadow]

Not all command throws can be YRCed btw. faust's can't, for example.

[TeeJay]

 

For Sin, I would imagine that eating is an input so you can get what meter you can whenever you can. For me the real question is if its like AC HOS charge where you can cancel to it off of normals, or Slash HOS where its a standalone move that can't be canceled into. If its the latter, I'd imagine he'd have an Action Charge equivalent (cancel specials into meat-bun-to-the-face)to make his specials more accessible. Now I'm wandering a little far into Sin-is-Order-Sol wishlist territory, though. 

I guess when thinking about HOS being a younger Sol iirc and Sin being raised by Sol, comparison speculation may not be too ridiculous. I doubt it but it would be interesting-- perhaps a huge stretch but it's anime fighters... I can imagine him eating after moves (making it almost taunt like) like Shun Di in VF-- though the screenshot makes me think that's probably not the case. 

[HeWhoRocksAlot]

I wasn't able to go to AX but I have a buddy that was able to go, so I told him a questions to ask Aksys why ASW wouldn't let them localize Xrd since Aksys is just publushing it in North America,and ASW is doing the localization themselves.

Apparently it was a mutual agreement between the two companies, and it took some of the workload off Aksys to let them have more time to do other things like market Xrd. A couple Aksys people think it most likely will NOT be dubbed.

Still, Aksys doesn't know if ASW is dubbing it or not, or they're just hold a bit information that they don't want people to know yet. Someone could ask them again at Evo this weekend if the Aksys people are willing to talk more about it.

[HeWhoRocksAlot]

Also to that guy thats been annoying everyone lately, I'm pretty sure everyone in here is completely aware of those facts about Xrd. The reason everyone is calling you a troll is that you wanted to start debate between Xrd and CP, when that's unnecessary discussion in this thread.

[TeeJay]

I wasn't able to go to AX but I have a buddy that was able to go, so I told him a questions to ask Aksys why ASW wouldn't let them localize Xrd since Aksys is just publushing it in North America,and ASW is doing the localization themselves.

Apparently it was a mutual agreement between the two companies, and it took some of the workload off Aksys to let them have more time to do other things like market Xrd. A couple Aksys people think it most likely will NOT be dubbed.

Marketing is always good. 

[White Man]

A couple Aksys people think it most likely will NOT be dubbed.

 

I'm probably in the minority here, but I kind of hope Xrd doesn't get dubbed. It feels like an unnecessary feature designed to cater to the kind of people who got furious over that Coke commercial where people were singing America the Beautiful in different languages.