Bit of a strange situation with this game and learning it...

[A Classy Gamer]

Okay, I am afraid that I have found myself in a bit of a bind in learning this game. You see, I have one friend offline that actually wants to play Guilty Gear. We got into it around the same time. This issue is, I seem to have learned and progressed much more quickly than him, and now he's actually losing interest because he can't win unless I'm obviously not trying. He's tried to learn Testament and dabbled in Sol, but I've gotten just as far, and if not farther, with Faust, Robo-Ky, May, and Baiken. After mentioning how simple and straightforward all my characters are, I decided to just play Testament a bit to see where he's coming from ... and beat him. Now it's gotten to the point where I win with just about any character if I actually learn what said character is supposed to do and I've practically alienated my only competition to the point where I'm going to wind up with no one to play with until/unless R+ brings in some fantastic netcode.

Now I feel bad if I play the characters I want because the odds are ridiculously in my favor, and I get bored out of my mind playing any characters that the fight is actually even with. Does anyone have advice on what to do in this kind of situation?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I've been in the exact same situation. Pretty much nothing you can do. If he is losing interest because he can't get better than he's obviously not cut out for FGs. It's the harsh reality about any competitive hobby/game. All you can do is be supportive and instructive but if he's not responsive to that you're pretty much out of options.

As much as I wish you could, you can't force someone to become competitive at FGs.

[tataki]

Beating someone with his own main character, which you don't really main yourself, is like a kick in the balls so I advise you stop doing it.

And maybe look at WHY he's losing and give him advice based on that... Maybe sit together to watch some high level footage and help him understand what the better players of his character do and why. He'll surely have some success if he x-copies them.

[A Classy Gamer]

Beating someone with his own main character, which you don't really main yourself, is like a kick in the balls so I advise you stop doing it.

And maybe look at WHY he's losing and give him advice based on that... Maybe sit together to watch some high level footage and help him understand what the better players of his character do and why. He'll surely have some success if he x-copies them.

I was hoping that if I just played Testament cheap enough, he might get some ideas. I keep telling him that he isn't keeping enough shit on screen and isn't using that damned counter often enough.

[Rhiya]

Like someone else said, just be supportive and constructive. Make sure he sees what he does wrong and knows how to train to fix it. There's not a whole lot you can do past that.

[Alzarath]

I don't suppose you have any footage of his TE, do you? I'd like to take a took at his play.

[TheRealBobMan]

How new is he to fighting games? Does he play anything else competitively? Do you think he would benefit from reading Playing to Win? I don't suggest cramming that down his throat (homework is just going to be more offputting), but maybe suggest it if he has scrub mentality and holds himself back? If he's not filling the screen with crap, he might not see why it's a good idea, or he might not know how to safely do it, or he's holding himself back specifically because he thinks it's cheap. If that's a problem for him, explaining that GG is well balanced enough that even the cheapest strategies have strong counters will probably put him at ease. If he's still not willing to do it suggest switching to another character, since Testament is probably the only character in the game, except for maybe Pot, that people would be willing to call cheap anyway. Damn Exe Beast.

Maybe learn I-No? She's hard and you'll have to put a ton of time in to be able to play her effectively, giving him a chance to catch up. Vs Testament is also like a 55/45 matchup in I-No's favor, so you wont lose constantly while learning her. Vs Sol is even, though until you learn 5K > HCL > 6FRC6 stuff, you wont have the damage output to really have it feel even. Sol can technically win the match using just VV / GV / WT since VV beats anything that GV doesn't beat (other than blocking, which is why you need the command throw), so your friend can try to scrub you out.

Anyway, more information would help us give you better suggestions. I mean, does he practice as much as you do? Maybe he's falling behind because he doesn't play despite being interested in the game?

[A Classy Gamer]

How new is he to fighting games? Does he play anything else competitively? Do you think he would benefit from reading Playing to Win? I don't suggest cramming that down his throat (homework is just going to be more offputting), but maybe suggest it if he has scrub mentality and holds himself back? If he's not filling the screen with crap, he might not see why it's a good idea, or he might not know how to safely do it, or he's holding himself back specifically because he thinks it's cheap. If that's a problem for him, explaining that GG is well balanced enough that even the cheapest strategies have strong counters will probably put him at ease. If he's still not willing to do it suggest switching to another character, since Testament is probably the only character in the game, except for maybe Pot, that people would be willing to call cheap anyway. Damn Exe Beast.

Maybe learn I-No? She's hard and you'll have to put a ton of time in to be able to play her effectively, giving him a chance to catch up. Vs Testament is also like a 55/45 matchup in I-No's favor, so you wont lose constantly while learning her. Vs Sol is even, though until you learn 5K > HCL > 6FRC6 stuff, you wont have the damage output to really have it feel even. Sol can technically win the match using just VV / GV / WT since VV beats anything that GV doesn't beat (other than blocking, which is why you need the command throw), so your friend can try to scrub you out.

Anyway, more information would help us give you better suggestions. I mean, does he practice as much as you do? Maybe he's falling behind because he doesn't play despite being interested in the game?

Actually, he has several years over me in overall fighting game experience. I don't actually own the game and he practices from time to time, so it's not an issue of me investing more time than him. He's been on a bit of an anime fighter kick lately and feels most at home playing Lambda in Blazblue. I'd play Blazblue more often, but we are still on CS2 and I'm always salty that Platinum STILL costs $7 USD to buy, so Guilty Gear seemed like a more logical choice. Plus, I can only sit through the Arakune-Lambda match up for a limited amount of time before I stop having fun.

It's not that he finds Testament's minefield too cheap to use, it's just that he doesn't seem to adapt it into his gameplay. When we very first started in Guilty Gear, he tried to play Testament as a rushdown character. It took a while, some high level footage, and a lot of losses before he figured that out.

It might be a player issue: I've noticed that I tend to adapt much faster in just about any game (from GG to SF to Tekken to Marvel) and don't mind changing tactics, while he will stick with something and just dismiss 90% of what wins as stupid, braindead, or random. (Which there is some merit to, seeing as I main Faust) It's like he likes the concept of anime fighters and enjoys watching them, but the inherent cheapness and design ideas aren't fully sinking in.

[Rhiya]

Maybe he should consider switching characters. You're making it sound like he's just not at home with Testament.

[excelence]

Testament without minefield is like sitting duck on the open field

Anyway... Testament is quite similar to Lambda(zoning, traps & guardcrush / Unblockables), any reason why he can't implement Lambda gameplan to Testament? ... unless he's playing rush down Lambda...

[A Classy Gamer]

Testament without minefield is like sitting duck on the open field

Anyway... Testament is quite similar to Lambda(zoning, traps & guardcrush / Unblockables), any reason why he can't implement Lambda gameplan to Testament? ... unless he's playing rush down Lambda...

Nah, it's just a difference in tools. Lambda is a bit better at evading in general than Testament is, but Testament is more reliant on counters and blocking for defense. Plus, Testament requires a bit more thought and foresight than Lambda does. Also, I'm really, really ass in Blazblue; that helps.

How do you make the game feel less "random" to people without gimping yourself? Seems like every time I try out something new with a character, it's stupid/braindead/lucky/gimmicky. I understand applying that to Faust, but none of those really apply to May or Robo-Ky.

[White Man]

People don't like to lose. That is an inarguable fact of human nature. Losing occasionally (or even frequently, depending on your familiarity with the game) should be tolerable if you're mature and walk into the situation with the right attitude. But I'll go out on a limb and say that NO ONE can be expected to enjoy playing any game when they're losing 100% of the time.

I know a lot of people here are going to bite my head off for even suggesting this, but you might want to consider throwing the occasional round for the sake of keeping your buddy's win rate above 0%. Not saying you need to be obvious about it, but in situations where it's the final round and you're both low on life, just let him land a free combo and take it. Yeah yeah, you're doing him a giant disservice by rewarding poor play and he'll never learn that way and he'll be eternally damned to scrubdom and shut up David Sirlin no one likes you. If letting him get a free win now and then is what it takes to keep him interested in the game, ultimately that's better than him getting frustrated and walking away from it permanently, forever killing an activity you both enjoy.

Now, if you've managed to create such a gap in your respective skill levels that you're just destroying him match after match where he can't possibly win unless you severely handicap yourself, you might want to look into alternatives to playing competitively. AC+ has a TON of single player content; take advantage of that. I remember years ago, I had a friend over to play the game on the PS2, and we had a blast taking turns trying to beat MOM mode with the difficulty turned up. We were technically playing the game together, both improving and learning new tactics for our characters, but the shared goal of beating the CPU turned the experience into a cooperative one where we were both cheering each other on. Instead of him vs. me, it was us vs. them.

You can also try taking a joint tour through mission mode. Same shared goal mentality there, plus it's a great way for him to learn more about the game's various system mechanics.

[excelence]

*snip...

How do you make the game feel less "random" to people without gimping yourself? Seems like every time I try out something new with a character, it's stupid/braindead/lucky/gimmicky. I understand applying that to Faust, but none of those really apply to May or Robo-Ky.

In fighting game braindead / gimicky stuff that come out not randomly will get destroyed fast.

And throwing a round can actually be double edged... at least for me, i'd seriously got pissed off if the one i go against me throwing match after utterly destroying me... if u both enjoy your activity and you know your opponent is serious, it's better to respect your opponent, if he's practicing regularly, he might have some stuff he would want to try on your next match.

Btw, I've have experienced 30>0 and still whining on Dizzy v Slayer match... but still come back to the game. The point is, if your buddy really like the game you don't need to worry about him leaving the scene.

And beating people in mirror watch using their character is indeed like a kick on the balls, but try to switch character. Have your buddy play Faust and you play Testament have you show them what their character can do against your character. It actually help me a lot to understand the match up and the tools i have by doing this.