Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) With the recent announcement of P4U's sequel, I have decided to create a new thread for the sake of discussing changes to Elizabeth's gameplay. On Twitter, Okusan posted some of Elizabeth's changes: (Tweet 1) (Tweet 2) (Tweet 3) (Tweet 4) (Tweet 5) Compiled list of changes by Okusan, on Evernote Translated changes: [intro] The information below is from a location test. Changes are possible prior to the actual release, so please keep that in mind. All of this information comes from either personal investigation or from hearing it secondhand, so it may not be entirely accurate. [basics] Persona card count increased to six. However, being persona broken now hurts significantly more. It takes a long time to recover all six cards. Some specials (Zio, Bufu, Agi, Garu) are changed in awakening. Some normals are dash, backdash, and hop-cancelable. Zio and Garu can be performed during a backdash. (Unconfirmed info) Air backdash distance shortened. HP increased to 8000. [Normals] -5A Hop-cancelable. -5AA Animation changed. Now spins cards forward, hits many times. ??? [T/N something about -2 frames, recovery, and not really a lot] -5AAA Animation changed. Elizabeth blows a card outward. If it hits, locks (?) opponent. After that, a whirlwind of cards bursts from opponent's feet, many hits. -5B Hop-cancelable. Attack level decreased (?) -2B Hop-cancelable. -j.A -j.2B New move Animation identical to 2B. Gatlings into j.B, j.C. -j.B Recovery increased (?) j.B > j.A does not work. -2AB Hop-cancelable. -5C Dash- and backdash-cancelable. If first hit connects while very close to the opponent, second hit will go through them. Dash- or backdash-canceling first hit causes Thanatos to disappear without performing second hit. -2C On hit or block, grants a new indicator above her SP gauge: "1hdSwd Master" [T/N originally 小剣の心得, a skill gained by Thanatos at level 71 in P3]. Startup increased (?) -j.D Range somewhat increased Distance does not change when turned around. -Furious Action Can feint by holding the buttons Feint animation is up to the actual point of the grab Does not seem to have much recovery -Debilitate Command: Charge 6 -> 4 A or B New move added for P4C Elizabeth floats into the air and throws a card downward. If either the card or Elizabeth is hit with an attack, the move activates. Opponent is sent skyward and inflicted with negative penalty. Version differences are in startup and counter duration. Can followup with 5B. -Ziodyne When in Awakening, beam takes up almost the entire screen Non-awakening A version: Now only one hit, startup decreased. -Bufudyne Non-awakening A version: Now only one hit. Opponent simply falls after first hit. Awakening B version: Shoots two waves after lifting opponent in the air. -Agidyne Number of hits, recovery changed while in Awakening. Non-awakening C version: Number of hits decreased, fire ends about midscreen. Non-awakening D version: Number of hits decreased, fire ends about midscreen. Awakening C version: More hits than non-awakening, fire comes from behind after coming from in front. Awakening D version: More hits than non-awakening, fire comes from in front after coming from behind. Awakening SB version: More hits than non-awakening, recovery decreased (?) -Garudyne Can no longer do Garu > land > combo outside awakening [T/N really not sure about this, what does ガルカス mean] In Awakening, hitbox and power changes, locks opponent on hit. Launches opponent on last hit. Can combo SB Garu into 5C when in awakening. Non-awakening D version: Startup slower, increased recovery, uncertain on block. Non-awakening SB version: Cannot do the usual double-Garu combo (?) Awakening D version: Startup faster (?) Elizabeth confirmed not to have a shadow version. Some notes/Translations by Dakanya on Twitter: Liz: Can feint R-action, 75% * awakening gives A+B Dia & heals ~40%, B.Bufu freeze 2x?, A.Bufu freeze on (1), D.Garu +startup +recovery Liz: Garukasu gone, A autocombo change, AAA throws a card, launches them w/ a tornado on hit, air bdash travel is shorter? A.Zio is 1 hit Liz: AA not much recovery? JB > JA doesn't work? maybe JB has more recovery? 5C(2) can pass through and whiff if too close/point blank Liz: new move RANDOMIZER, is a counter, forces negative penalty on hit. A ver duration is short, B ver duration is long. Liz: Awakening: Garu: appears bigger, loops become avail, can launch by itself. Agi: C+D travel back and forth now, basically free SB Agi Liz: Awakening: SB Agi: # of pillars increased, orig 9 hit now is 11~13 Liz: now has a j.2B Edited August 16, 2013 by Elochai
syzm Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) エリザベス 新技…ランダマイザ 相手の攻撃に合わせて6タメ4AorB 覚醒すると技の性能が変化 New move "Randomizer." Charge back -> Forward(?) Can't tell you what it does, though. 相手の攻撃 would be "opponent's attack." Oh wait, it's a confuse? Edited August 16, 2013 by syzm
Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 エリザベス 新技…ランダマイザ 相手の攻撃に合わせて6タメ4AorB 覚醒すると技の性能が変化 New move "Randomizer." Charge back -> Forward(?) Can't tell you what it does, though. 相手の攻撃 would be "opponent's attack." Oh wait, it's a confuse? Updated the OP with info about this move. Supposedly it inflicts negative penalty. Yay for more stupid damage. R action feint seems kinda useful in theory (since we're lacking in mix-ups anyway). Buffed healing sounds nice, too.
Starlight777 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Liz can force Negative Penalty? That is just plain evil. I'm actually gonna try and learn to play her the right way this time around.
syzm Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Updated the OP with info about this move. Supposedly it inflicts negative penalty. Yay for more stupid damage. R action feint seems kinda useful in theory (since we're lacking in mix-ups anyway). Buffed healing sounds nice, too. If I'm reading it right, they basically just added negative penalty to her dead angle/counter assault/whatever it's called in Persona. Nevermind, the input is different. Same sort of effect from what I can tell. Sounds like a counter that inflicts negative. 相手の攻撃に合わせて6タメ4AorB -- 6->4 A/B during opponent's attack. Edited August 16, 2013 by syzm
DudeUnderscore Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 jesus christ all these buffs, im getting all giddy
Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) If I'm reading it right, they basically just added negative penalty to her dead angle/counter assault/whatever it's called in Persona. Nevermind, the input is different. Same sort of effect from what I can tell. Sounds like a counter that inflicts negative. 相手の攻撃に合わせて6タメ4AorB -- 6->4 A/B during opponent's attack. 6>4AB as in the reverse of counter assault? Interesting. Perhaps we may have a decent reversal now (that's not 2B). Edit: Okusan's last 2 tweeets seem to be about the new Randomizer move. He makes it sound like shuffle time, though(?): "ランダマイザのあとは拾えるけど逆ギレchなみにタイミング面倒くさいな" "ベスは逆ギレフェイントランダマイザが最低" Edit2: Also, you can combo after Randomizer? "あ、あとSBランダマイザ確認" Edited August 16, 2013 by Elochai
syzm Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Yea I don't know, I sort of immediately pictured a shuffle time sort of thing at first. Specifics aside it's... some sort of defensive option that applies negative and doesn't seem to cost meter. Edited August 17, 2013 by syzm
susano Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Liz can force Negative Penalty? That is just plain evil. I'm actually gonna try and learn to play her the right way this time around. My inner self just cackled hearing that.
Putin Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 So we now get buffs on moves while on Awakening? Is this a universal thing? I hope they don't screw this up and force us to Concentrate just to do some damage. I also hope the counter is a decent reversal no matter its ailment, I just want more chances to escape pressure rather than wait for a chance to 2B.
Eshi Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Elizabeth buffs AAAHHHHHH I completely didn't expect the next game so soon and I'm unbelievably excited now. I haven't seen it here yet but Elizabeth now has 6 persona cards. These changes are fantastic! Edited August 16, 2013 by Eshi
Luminos564 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Elizabeth buffs AAAHHHHHH I completely didn't expect the next game so soon and I'm unbelievably excited now. I haven't seen it here yet but Elizabeth now has 6 persona cards now. These changes are fantastic! Are they buffs though? From the look of things, they sound more like overall nerfs than anything. Of course, I could very well be wrong (and hope I am) so if someone could explain why these changes are for the better then please do so. I'd be all the more excited to play my favorite Persona lady then XD.
Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I hope we get some loketest footage or something soon. I'm curious about Randomizer combos; if it's a strike or it acts like a regular grab, then I guess Randomizer > OMB > stuff (which I wish was garu loop) should be possible. Silly reversal combos into death due to negative penalty is the future ~ With garudyne loops gone, however, I wonder what are staple BnB will be. I still would greatly appreciate translations on the OP. Edit: Being able to freeze more than once per combo looks kinda funny. Edited August 16, 2013 by Elochai
Luminos564 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Well here is, what I assume to be, Randomizer in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LAfljz8W5Fc&t=17. It does indeed take away all their SP meter and put them into Negative Penalty. So is this going to be a case of Randomizer>Mind Charge>Any Fear inducing combo>Bufudyne>Ghastly Wail for a GG?
Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 Updating OP with a JPN list of changes. Can be found here: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s302/sh/583498da-e940-4ed2-b1c2-d05d699d4e40/f68f9dac7784eea21595fd4cadde1fa1 Randomizer's recovery looks really long? It doesn't seem to be active until later on, too. At least mind charge > stuff looks like it may work. I doubt you can OMB, but who knows.
TheArm05 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Can't wait to see the full changelist. Honestly I just hope we get to keep Ghastly Wail combos. That shit is too cool. 6 Persona cards is a double edged sword though since if we do lose Thanatos with 6 cards he is probably not coming back before you die. As far as some of these changes being nerfs goes. I hear a lot of the characters are getting nerfed pretty hard. I would gladly sacrifice Liz's high end damage for some more consistency in her normals or actual mixup. Although I may be pushing it. Watched the video Elochai posted. Does it seem like they sped up Liz's auto meter gain a bit to anyone else? Also anyone know what that shiny sword that appears next to the SPup icon when she Mindcharges in the combo/thanatos 5Cs is? Edited August 16, 2013 by TheArm05
Luminos564 Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Watched the video Elochai posted. Does it seem like they sped up Liz's auto meter gain a bit to anyone else? Also anyone know what that shiny sword that appears next to the SPup icon when she Mindcharges in the combo/thanatos 5Cs is? http://pastebin.com/BZRPU8gG According to that list, that sword icon (1-handed sword to be precise) is active when Thanny does his 2C. It is likely just a visual indicator that he got the power increase that 2C provides meaning you'll know when you either have it or have used it, but so will the opponent.
Elochai Posted August 16, 2013 Author Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) http://pastebin.com/BZRPU8gG Le doy las gracias a usted ~ OP updated. Edit: Okay, if I'm right, then "1 Hand Sword Master" isn't something new. I think it's just a way of representing the 2C buff that she had in vanilla (which is why the icon appeared after 2C, and then went away when bufu hit). Edited August 16, 2013 by Elochai
TD Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 merry christmas. merry merry christmas. l will sleep well tonight.
stinkymonz Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 hngghhhh that changelist. I'm salivating. Also, seriously Bace. You judge my phone wallpaper when that's your avatar? Tsk.
Diveman Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 -5C Dash- and backdash-cancelable. If first hit connects while very close to the opponent, second hit will go through them. Dash- or backdash-canceling first hit causes Thanatos to disappear without performing second hit. THIS is probably the most important change so far IMO, it means we now have safe pressure off 5C and not a whole guessing. 5B hop cancelable also sounds good.
TD Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 l dunno, making concentrate basically an install and still being a pause button looks really good....
Elochai Posted August 17, 2013 Author Posted August 17, 2013 -5C Dash- and backdash-cancelable. If first hit connects while very close to the opponent, second hit will go through them. Dash- or backdash-canceling first hit causes Thanatos to disappear without performing second hit. THIS is probably the most important change so far IMO, it means we now have safe pressure off 5C and not a whole guessing. 5B hop cancelable also sounds good. I like this change as well. Even though this is a safer option for pressure (at the risk of losing tagging your opponent with 2C or 5D), I think it opens up your opponent to pressing buttons. Depending on how late you can BDC, maybe something like 5C > BDC > (opponent hits normal) > 66 5A or 5B? If anything, I'm glad that Randomizer can be comboed off of. Counter into death sounds so satisfying, especially since Elizabeth commonly finds herself in tight situations.
DudeUnderscore Posted August 17, 2013 Posted August 17, 2013 http://youtu.be/5njd88-UNaU?t=51s Jesus christ look at that zio size, that's freaking horrifying(ly delicious)
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