toanenadiz Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 The Neutral Game Long Range: Your Tools vs His Tools Medium Range: Your Tools vs His Tools Close Quarters: Your Tools vs His Tools Offense Your Offense: His Offense: Defense Your Defense: His Defense: Frame Data: Advantageous, Disadvantageous, and Punishable Moves Neutral/Advantageous Moves: Disadvantageous Moves: Punishable Moves: Gimmicks and Resets Match Summary
Legacy Edge Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 So.....how about playing this ultra passive with Dia, reseting whenever possible and go to luna only mid-combo for more dmg and straight to Dia after?
toanenadiz Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 Sounds like the smartest plan. Probably should spam gravity well a lot as well to slow him down since it recharges stupidly fast now.
Putin Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Playing passive against Hakumen is a double edged sword though, since he builds meter crazy fast now and he can rip you a new one if he hits you and has enough stars. I know this is true for Hazama, so I'd imagine it's even worse for Nu.
Errol Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Playing passive against Hakumen is a double edged sword though, since he builds meter crazy fast now and he can rip you a new one if he hits you and has enough stars. I know this is true for Hazama, so I'd imagine it's even worse for Nu. but even if things go well for you playing ultra aggressive, by the time you knock him low, he'll have max stars and an OD to OHKO you. So I dunno.
ElegantShadow Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 but even if things go well for you playing ultra aggressive, by the time you knock him low, he'll have max stars and an OD to OHKO you. So I dunno. It basically comes down to whether you want to take on the storm now or take your chances and hope that it doesn't hit to begin with. Honestly, this Match-Up looks like it's more in Hakumen's favor than ever before. His Damage, and Meter Gain have all been buffed and that's not even mentioning what his OD does for him. So.....how about playing this ultra passive with Dia, reseting whenever possible and go to luna only mid-combo for more dmg and straight to Dia after? That does seem to be the lesser of the two evils. At least while playing passively we'll be able to keep Hakumen from getting to brave with his approach and possibly make him have to waste his OD by Bursting.
toanenadiz Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 His damage honestly doesn't seem that different overall. He actually gets less damage on average for each star so he will have to use more of them to deal good damage, hence why he gets meter faster. As for aggressive versus passive, it has always been like this. Hakumen will get 8 stars, unless you are constantly getting hit by him so he has to speed them in combos. I think you should play the match-up basically the same way as Extend. His corner carry is less ridiculous this time and the time based combo system means you won't be eating 3.5K from a 2A and ending up in the corner. I also don't think Nu has the tools to really play ultra aggressive against Hakumen anyway.
toanenadiz Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 Just played this match-up. This match-up feels pretty free except for OD and the occasional Yukikaze/Shippu. Gravity well lockdown is so amazing.
someonewhodied Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Im tempted to get this game for mac just to get REAL matchup exp. hakumen so damn free. And here i thought OD and mugen shippuspam would be an issue.
toanenadiz Posted November 2, 2013 Author Posted November 2, 2013 How do you get around Shippu > Kishuu xN? Or do you just run away SWD?
someonewhodied Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) I superjump and airdash the moment i see shippu's starting animation (superflash), repeat, bonus points if the hakumen messes up and i react fast enough to throw out a gravity. Oh yeah, i forgot to mention, this is assuming the hakumen does 2 kishus after each shippu. If its just one, well I'd have to play against a haku that did that to find out, but with 2 kishus, if the hakumen gets too close, you can airdash over them safely off of a super jump. Edited November 2, 2013 by someonewhodied
someonewhodied Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 5D picks hakumen off the ground if he doesn't tech.
toanenadiz Posted November 18, 2013 Author Posted November 18, 2013 I completely agree with running Luna for neutral. I love it. I've had far more success with the Hakumen match-up since I've started using Luna whenever he had 4 or more stars.
mAc Chaos Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 You mean Lambda mode? Interesting. And why after 4 stars, why not just always?
toanenadiz Posted November 18, 2013 Author Posted November 18, 2013 You mean Lambda mode? Interesting. And why after 4 stars, why not just always? This should probably go in the Haku match-up thread... but I'm too lazy to go it right now and I figure it if this is important enough to go in there, Hex will move it (Sorry for making you do extra work Hex). I can't hitconfirm off of a single D sword. So I always do 2 D presses in Dia mode so that if the first D sword hit, the second one will auto combo and then I can confirm the rest of the combo. Against Hakumen, if he Yukikaze's the first D sword, the second one will whiff and then I just lost a bunch of damage. Rather than risk that, it is just better to go with Luna where that doesn't happen. Luna also does more damage which is a good thing. There are some other reasons but I don't have enough time right now. somehow posted this in the wron thread from the previous thread: is there a guide for this character? cp version. also eho are the best nu's to watch? just noticed shes a mode change char, and l need one to fill the hole litchi left in my sub army. TIA What would a guide consist? A video? A fleshed out wiki? Or a really good post in a thread?
mAc Chaos Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 I don't really feel like gravity does much to Hakumen in this version. I can jump out pretty easy and it doesn't slow me down at all.
AchedSphinx Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Gravity is pretty effective. It keeps Hakumen from moving which is a good thing. Plus Nu's 5D is jump-cancelable, so those shenanigans exist, along with Act Parser, overheads, etc. You can basically play lame the entire round and win. But Hakumen will probably save his burst for those one-kill combos.
someonewhodied Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 I've been having more success by playing in a hakumen's face recently than actually zoning.
AchedSphinx Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Here's how I see a lot of the matches go at high level play. http://youtu.be/N5g9x8i8M-s?t=1s
someonewhodied Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 you can air act parser after a crescent cancel? I've been living a lie.
AchedSphinx Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 OK so, this is what I was going to explain about the Haku Nu matchup. Hakumen in CP lives and dies by his counter hits. And not just any counterhit, but off 3C and 6B. If I can't get anything off those, then I'm SOL. Well, 5C too, but basically, if you don't try to mash out and just focus on up backing and backdashing out at the right time, you will probably beat 95% of the Hakumens you run into just because of that. Anything I can do to punish it requires guessing, and if I guess right it is only 2k or so. And without much oki it is basically like we are at neutral all the time. You will notice, Toan, that this is how you normally always play, so that is why there is this huge difference. In EX he could open people up much easier, but now he is reliant on you to make a mistake so he can get damage off it with his particular starters like 5C and 3C. If you don't give him that chance then all he has is OD. But since there isn't much damage I can do off a low without CH, you can just block high most of the time (like you already do) and be safe from Tsubaki > Hotaru > OD setups. Could be useful!
toanenadiz Posted December 12, 2013 Author Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) I never did post that write-up I did on this match-up. But most Nu probably already know how to fight Hakumen so it isn't that bad of a concern. I'll at least post this since Mac already posted the above. Hakumen's pressure seems markedly worse in CP compared to CS. The pushback makes him have to hop to close the distance more often and weakens his previously strong throwing game. 2A > throw is out of range if you barrier 2A. Given Haku's lack of gatlings, he typically aims to use normals plus on block to make you afraid of pressing buttons or cancelling into specials using stars. However in CP, he only has 3 normals that aren't negative, 5A, 5B and 2A. 5A can't hit Nu crouching. 5B will whiff if he tries to do 2A > 5B and you barrier blocked the 2A. 2A is pretty good for him though since it self cancels so there isn't a gap in between 2A > 2A. He is still good at frames traps though. His 5C and 2C cause stupid amounts of damage on hit and can be made safe using specials. If he CHs you with 6B, which is foot invul (aka blows up 2A mash) or 3C, you will also be taking stupid amounts of damage. However, 3C can't be canceled at all and 6B can only be canceled into drive so you can either risk the guessing game trying to punish or just ran away. Lows: 2B (gatlings from 5A and 2A), 3C (gatlings from 5A and 2A), Renka (236B, from a special cancelable move) Overheads: 6B - only gatlings from 6A. 18 frames. Can only be combo'd from with CH (and RC possibly). Tsubaki (j214C) - Can either be TK'd or done from a hop. TK is 19 frames. Hop is ?. It does 2.8K by itself. Only combos into Hotaru, which typicaly leads to death from the resulting OD combo. Barrier blocking is pretty good to escape. It prevents tick throw set-ups off of 2A as well as pushes Hakumen out of range so he can't gatling into 5B (it will whiff on a crouching Nu if tries to gatling into it). If he hops towards you, you can upback to prevent dealing with hop Tsubaki (but it will make hop Hotaru hit you and hop Agito to be plus on block). Otherwise IB, barrier and upback to put some distance between you. If you block 6B or 3C, you get out for free. The best thing to do is just upback or backdash when you see a hole. Hakumen can't do much to punish it and you will never be put at risk of a counter hit. 5A is a valid poke out option against Hakumen though since it will hit him even if he is crouching if you want to mash instead. Edited December 12, 2013 by toanenadiz
mAc Chaos Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 what have i done However, 6B and 3C can only be canceled into drive so you can either risk the guessing game trying to punish or just ran away. None of his Cs cancel into drive. 3C in particular doesn't cancel into anything at all.
toanenadiz Posted December 12, 2013 Author Posted December 12, 2013 Fixed. I wonder why I have such a hard time punishing 3C then. Need to work on that.
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