AC: General Discussion

[AlterGenesis]

In any case, just the fact that the fish can take two actions and jumping 2S makes Dizzy an auto-improvement. It's been working out well so far. She's probably still going to be my main, but going back to Order sure is temtping now. =(

[Nehle]

I think you guys are underestimating just how much of an improvement the new input for necro is. I've been spamming that shit like crazy in all sorts of fun situations and it manages to come through more often than you'd expect. Hell, I managed to use it as anti-air against Baiken's IAD j.S

[AlterGenesis]

Believe me, I'm spamming it too. It works in all sorts of ridiculous situations. A heavy fish and held spike then a necro's anger, man, it works almost all the time.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

pff ive been doing that since mid slash. I got that retarded motion down.

[Ice Prince]

I actually took a liking to TK bubble, fish, spike, Imperial Ray when I was spaced at a safe enough distance. I only ever used Necro's Anger when I had them trapped in corner (or in oki situations here and there.) Now, I have a feeling I'll use it alot more. As Nehle already said, it's just too easy and good now.

[AlterGenesis]

pff ive been doing that since mid slash. I got that retarded motion down.

The retarded motion is just 3x HCF, as you probably know. I've used it too. You almost make it sound like you're the only one in the world to do the motion.

[Nehle]

Hey, ward off the drama. I think everybody who plays dizzy got the "retarded" motion down, It's not a matter of actually landing the super (which is quite easy, even with the "correct" input), but the fact that you can cast it a whole lot faster and more accurately now which lets counter much more things on reaction (jump-ins, rushdowns etc.) Before AC the primary use for it was as a riseup move.

[AlterGenesis]

Yeah, it's much more reliable now. That was the point.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

The retarded motion is just 3x HCF, as you probably know. I've used it too. You almost make it sound like you're the only one in the world to do the motion.

i never accualy did the hcf x 3 i accually did the 34123646 p because the hcf x 3 took too long for me to do. but yes the new motion is much more practical.

[Nehle]

Also the old input forced you to break your guard, the new one doesn't

[Necrosis]

Am I the only one who REALLY likes FB bubble after 2D? I remember hearing people say the FB bubble just sucks. It's great for instantly forcing them to go on the defensive in that situation, though. I'm doing 2D 2147D 421S 214PP now. So it's knockdown, bubble, spear hits their guard, pops bubble afterwards forcing them to stay defensive while you throw the fish, and since the fish stay out again they have to go on defensive. At least, that's how it works out for me as of now, no idea if it's actually practical. By the way PP fish is pretty amazing for pressure IMO. HP fish is probably best overall though.

[AlterGenesis]

I don't know. The thing about FB bubble is that you can get the same pressure effect with a normal bubble. (..and saving 25% tension.) Maybe, if the bubble lasted a little longer I would use it, but for the most part I just don't like it, unless it's fullscreen.

[Nehle]

By the way PP fish is pretty amazing for pressure IMO. HP fish is probably best overall though.

PP fish is pretty terrible unless you're standing within throw range of the opponent.

Only time I use PP fish is when I'm using it as a meat shield to ward off attackers, otherwise, for bite pressure I find KP fish to do the job better what with K being meaty and making sure that the fish reaches the opponent.

I don't know. The thing about FB bubble is that you can get the same pressure effect with a normal bubble. (..and saving 25% tension.) Maybe, if the bubble lasted a little longer I would use it, but for the most part I just don't like it, unless it's fullscreen.

FB bubble has like twice the hitbox of the standard bubble though, so it's a lot harder for the opponent to escape it, but eh, at that range FB is a little redundant.

In fact, with ordinary bubble the spear (if summoned fast) can pop the bubble with the first part to lock them down on riseup, then you can hold the spear and get more options.

[CrimsonDisaster]

You don't use FB bubble like a regular bubble. You use it like a weird fireball, almost like a Gunflame FRC. Regular bubble is a lingering threat or a safe blockstun move, FB bubble is an active "comin' atcha" kind of move.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

yes FB bubble is less about saftey and more about stealing momentum, IMO (although i find myself saving my tension for necros anger more and more cuz its just that great.)

[YaR 1030]

i havn't used FB bubble in any of my serious matches yet. I still keep it simple to the normal bubble.

[Alcyon One]

i think fb bubble is shit. sometimes i tk it and immediately air dash with it as a shield, but honestly... it really doesn't provide that great of a coverage and it's not very logistically sound. problem is that you don't really have a good way to pop it in most cases other than j2s if you air dash with it (assuming that you tk'd the bubble when the opponent is on the ground). another problem is that the travel speed of the bubble is at a point where it is too fast to chase if dizzy lands after tk'ing, but is not fast enough to provide a shield in front of dizzy if she air dashes with it. i actually wish if the bubble moved slightly faster so that dizzy can trail slightly behind it. but yea, i personally think you're much better off saving the tension for other stuff, especially ice spike frc and imperial ray. i also find myself to be using necro okotta ba-ai on wake up more often now that dizzy has tougher time getting out of pressure in general.

[YaR 1030]

gUd, so i am not the only one who never really uses tension bubble either.

[Alcyon One]

i'm not sure if this is a console glitch, or it's like this in the arcades also.... but sometimes when you summon s fish or h fish and input the k reactivation, the k reactivation can override the initial input and the fish will zoom forward extra distance before shooting the lazer. i can't tell so far if there's a timing for this or if it's purely random. the funny thing is, so far i seem to get this screwed up pattern more often instead of the intended h/s to k pattern. :/ also some minor changes that i'm not sure if it's been addressed yet or not: - stagger removed from fourth hit of far s - 2h is weaker; does same amount of damage as 5h now

[chun_li1]

Did 6P get better in terms of proper invincibility, better upper body invincibilty? I remember it sucking so bad that it was damn hard just hitting sol out of his 214K (where he goes to the wall). With everybody elses 6P it was a joke hitting sol. Now it seems just as easy w/ Dizzys 6P.

[Alcyon One]

i think the start-up is same as before, although it's possible that the move has more frames of invincibility or something. she certainly doesn't have as much of a risk using the move anymore though, since the move is guaranteed to launch the opponent across the screen, even on trades. and 6p, 421 combos in the corner is awesome!

sol's riot stomp was always a easy move to beat with anything, though. most characters can shoot it down with 5p on reaction, and dizzy could use 5k/5s/far s against it for a easy combo opportunity. you probably had trouble with 6p just because it's always been a slow move for her. it's always been more of a anticipation move than something to use on reaction.

[Alcyon One]

i noticed that fb bubble has a much longer recovery than normal bubble. both versions allow you to air dash cancel immediately, but otherwise the fb bubble will keep dizzy in longer recovery state in air. try doing the midscreen iad cross up fake with fb bubble. you will notice that you can't do j.h after the bubble not nearly as quickly compared to if you use a p/k/s bubble.

other things:

slower j.h is really pissing me off right now. i hate not being able to do iad, j.p, j.p, j.h and hate even more the fact that i can't do the old xx, ice spike frc, iad, j.p, j.h, land, j.k, j.s (jc), j.s, j.d damage combo. you can instead do j2s, j.h that only seem to work against light floaters (since j2s is hella slow) in close range.

i can now hit the just-frame special cancel for 2d pretty well but it's really not that useful since it's weaker and shorter now. 5h, ice spike does more damage then 2d, ice spike in accent core. also, you can no longer cancel it from 5h on top of being hella short. soooo... i don't really see myself using 2d much in this game anyway.

[Nehle]

slower j.h is really pissing me off right now. i hate not being able to do iad, j.p, j.p, j.h

Eh, j.P*n j.H can still be changed to j.P*(n-x) j.2s j.H without significant losses (unless you accidentally land), though I prefer just going for j2s immediately, giving you time to do another one for fun high/low games.

and hate even more the fact that i can't do the old xx, ice spike frc, iad, j.p, j.h, land, j.k, j.s (jc), j.s, j.d damage combo. you can instead do j2s, j.h that only seem to work against light floaters (since j2s is hella slow) in close range.

Maybe I misunderstood your post here, but I've been able to do Ice FRC IAD j2S jH on heavy floaters as well. Sure the timing is a bit different, but it's not a big deal. Not that giving up a knockdown for 40 extra damage is a very good idea to begin with

My only real gripe with slower j.H is how the timing COMPLETELY changed for Ice FRC IAD, late j.H |> (S.c) S.f Ice, and that thing is my favorite transporter combo.

also, you can no longer cancel it from 5h on top of being hella short. soooo... i don't really see myself using 2d much in this game anyway.

This is something I screw up with way too often. Standard pressure to 2H > 2D

Which doesn't work which leaves me at -23

Edit: But you can delay the 2H special cancel now, so a fast think should be able to solve it, maybe.

[excelence]

umm i have 1 dumb question(to lazy to search on the topic) Necro's anger 're supposedlly an UB's right? there's few times i tried to nail Block stunned character with this overdrives and i'm 100% possitive they was inside the range of the moves but it whiff completelly and i eat counter wth (+_+)... correct me if i'm wrong or if there's stuff i do wrongly... "Necro's Anger doesn't work on Blockstunned Character"

[AlterGenesis]

Yeah, if they are in blockstun, the move will whiff.