Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Sure about that? Everyone thought Kazuma telling Trinity to lift Mind Eater off of Terumi was just Terumi acting as Kazuma. Some clarification later, and look how that turned out. It was the opposite. Terumi was under the influence of Mind Eater, so Yuuki Terumi was mind controlled. However Kazuma was unaffected and he acted as Terumi throughout the whole Dark War, so in order to free Terumi, Kazuma had tricked Trinity. Izanami's voice sounds way too regal for that. If it was just Saya's voice she'd sound more like Noel or Nu. Uh... I don't think Yukana voices Saya's voice but only Izanami's voice. I was sure that Kanako Kondou voices Saya, but I may be wrong due to the seiyuu change. But don't take seiyuus' voice into account as the fact is that Izanami had used "Saya's voice" that Ragna and Jin knows too well. The voice that Izanami normally uses (her own voice), is a voice that is unfamiliar to Ragna and Jin. However Ragna got majorly pissed when Izanami purposely used Saya's voice in order to try to make Ragna join her side. Izanami speaks in an old Japanese way while Saya speaks in a normal way.
harmless kitten Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Uh... I don't think Yukana voices Saya's voice but only Izanami's voice. I was sure that Kanako Kondou voices Saya, but I may be wrong due to the seiyuu change. Yes, Kondou voices Saya/Noel/Nu/Lambda. Yukana voices Izanami. Originally it was Kondou who voiced Izanami, but this changed for Extend. I suppose to hammer in the fact that this isn't really Saya. It was just an attempt to get under Ragna's skin--and it worked, albeit not the way she wanted it to.
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Yes, Kondou voices Saya/Noel/Nu/Lambda. Yukana voices Izanami. Originally it was Kondou who voiced Izanami, but this changed for Extend. I suppose to hammer in the fact that this isn't really Saya. It was just an attempt to get under Ragna's skin--and it worked, albeit not the way she wanted it to. Pretty much saying from my view, Izanami has Saya's memories, influence, voice and maybe personality mixed in with herself. The only question is if Noel is really Saya herself and Izanami is only "Saya" because her original influence had remained in her body which mixed with Izanami, even after Saya's true soul had escaped the body. I repeat, but this theory of "influences of memories, personality and such remaining in the body even after the soul leaves" is possible because same thing happened with when Nu first had entered Lambda's body. Otherwise I can't really tell how there are like two "Saya" existing in the world right now.
Master Of Chaos Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 It was the opposite. Terumi was under the influence of Mind Eater, so Yuuki Terumi was mind controlled. However Kazuma was unaffected and he acted as Terumi throughout the whole Dark War, so in order to free Terumi, Kazuma had tricked Trinity. That's exactly what I said.
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 That's exactly what I said. Seems I read it wrong. Let me just say I probably would have agreed to a lot of the theories about Izanami right now if it wasn't for the confusing factor from Noel =w=;
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Seems I read it wrong. Let me just say I probably would have agreed to a lot of the theories about Izanami right now if it wasn't for the confusing factor from Noel =w=; Noel being Saya and "Izaya" having what's left of Saya's influence it is not really that confusing.
Zedar90 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I could think that the whole "Saya" thing is like this: Saya is the 01th prime field, got destroyed by Izayoi so she no longer is the eye for the Master Unit, and would later be picked up from the boundary with no memories of being the 01st prime field and she was put in the same lab as Ragna and Jin were in. Jubei finds the lab and brings the children to Celica for protection. Hazama finds Saya and makes her remember being the 01th prime field and breaks her mind making Saya's body unfit for the soul. And Hazama then brings Saya to Relius and Relius creates the 11th, 12th and 13th prime fields. Saya's soul somehow wanders between these three since they were based on Saya, but finally sets itself on Noel since only Noel was not tempered (in the anime it was said that the eyes were red on Lamda and Nu since they were tempered).
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (in the anime it was said that the eyes were red on Lamda and Nu since they were tempered). I don't remember seeing anything like this...
Zedar90 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I don't remember seeing anything like this... Episode 7. Rachel: Didn't you realize a little about who she really is? Ragna: Her eye color was different. Rachel: That's right, she is in pre-tempering state.
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Episode 7. Rachel: Didn't you realize a little about who she really is? Ragna: Her eye color was different. Rachel: That's right, she is in pre-tempering state. Maybe but still you forgot to mention that Izanami also possessed Saya after Terumi broke her and since Ragna stated that Saya wasn't acting like her usual self it could very well be Izanami. Also Ragna and jin being artificial as you said Ragna could be the same series like sechs and Jin's body could have been maid from Achit's cells consirding you said she could be related to the kisaragi family and her eyes and hair color could have used for a default form.Their souls might have from Toya and Akira's given that Akira got a heroic will power like you said and Toya's fighting style being similar to Ragna. although Hinata's feelings and Es could have been the same person just separated from a different body.Plus i am pretty sure that Hinata and Saya could have been the same prime field or not.So what are your thoughts.
Master Of Chaos Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 All records of soul transfer in this series have had a third party handle the process of moving the soul to it's intended replacement (Relius with Ada to Nirvana and Ignis, Rachel with Jin into Hakumen, Kokonoe with Nu into Lambda, etc), so I doubt that Saya's soul just happened to wonder about until it found Noel. The two year gap between Saya's possession by Izanami and Noel's birth also leaves me skeptical. If this did happen, who moved Saya's soul, when and how did they do it, and for what purpose?
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) All records of soul transfer in this series have had a third party handle the process of moving the soul to it's intended replacement (Relius with Ada to Nirvana and Ignis, Rachel with Jin into Hakumen, Kokonoe with Nu into Lambda, etc), so I doubt that Saya's soul just happened to wonder about until it found Noel. The two year gap between Saya's possession by Izanami and Noel's birth also leaves me skeptical. If this did happen, who moved Saya's soul, when and how did they do it, and for what purpose? Kagura apparently knows something about Noel's origins as do Rachel and Jubei they might have had something to do with that . Also Ragna and Jin's souls are implied to be from other people just not who specifically but two most suspected Touya and Akira the former due to having similar fighting style while latter has a smiliar willpower like Jin's. Also Sechs and Ragna could have been from the same unit. Edited January 9, 2014 by Toxin45
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Also Ragna and jin being artificial as you said Ragna could be the same series like sechs and Jin's body could have been maid from Achit's cells consirding you said she could be related to the kisaragi family and her eyes and hair color could have used for a default form.Their souls might have from Toya and Akira's given that Akira got a heroic will power like you said and Toya's fighting style being similar to Ragna. No........................ and speak proper English please... And stop with the whole "soul might be from XBLAZE characters" because we have no idea how close related XBLAZE and BlazBlue are right now. Concepts might be the same but other than the connections between characters who have the same last name (Amanohokosaka, Mercury), we have no idea if there are even connections between the other characters from XBLAZE to the main characters of BlazBlue... Until Mori says otherwise, other than power and ability concepts, we can't make any connections in terms of soul/reincarnation concept between characters from XBLAZE and BlazBlue. Episode 7. Rachel: Didn't you realize a little about who she really is? Ragna: Her eye color was different. Rachel: That's right, she is in pre-tempering state. I thought that was meant for comparing with Saya. =w=; Edited January 9, 2014 by Shinhwa
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 No........................ I thought that was meant for comparing with Saya. =w=; Oh really then how do you theorize their origins then?
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Oh really then how do you theorize their origins then? I can't theorize their origin with the current information. XBLAZE isn't the best place to theorize their origin as just because their abilities were similar, that doesn't mean it actually originates from them. Also you are taking the characters' hair color/eye color and such too much as just because they have the same hair color in the two different series, that doesn't mean they originate from each other. Just because Sechs and Ragna had the same seiyuu, that doesn't mean Ragna originates from Sechs either. Until we have legit information, we can't really say anything about it as it is totally unconfirmed. Unless you like spewing crack theories everywhere, although I would like crack theories to be avoided as much as possible. We told you before that similarities are similarities and until Mori says otherwise, we can't make any connections between them, so I would like to kindly ask that you stop with the whole thing. Edited January 9, 2014 by Shinhwa
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I can't theorize their origin with the current information. XBLAZE isn't the best place to theorize their origin as just because their abilities were similar, that doesn't mean it actually originates from them. Also you are taking the characters' hair color/eye color and such too much as just because they have the same hair color in the two different series, that doesn't mean they originate from each other. Just because Sechs and Ragna had the same seiyuu, that doesn't mean Ragna originates from Sechs either. Until we have legit information, we can't really say anything about it as it is totally unconfirmed. Unless you like spewing crack theories everywhere, although I would like crack theories to be avoided as much as possible. We told you before that similarities are similarities and until Mori says otherwise, we can't make any connections between them, so I would like to kindly ask that you stop with the whole thing. It wasn't suppose to be crack from the beginning.
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Something I just realized while looking through the Story Mode while I was writing articles for the Wiki: Izanami to Hazama: My vessel was once broken by you. It can't be helped that it is showing rejection towards you. Nu (Synchronized with Noel) to Ragna: The reason the fusion between Noel Vermillion and Yuuki Terumi failed may have been because he was the man who took away everything, my (Noel/Saya's) family, and had destroyed my mind to pieces. I (Noel) wouldn't want to become his heart even if I (Noel) died. Izanami, who has Saya's body knows about the fact Terumi had broke Saya before. Noel, who is speculated to have Saya's soul, had remembered about the past that happened after the events of Ragna and Celica's tragedy during the events of her smelting to become a material for the creation of a Black Beast and about the events of when Terumi had "broke" her. This really supports the theory about Body and Soul theory.
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Full Story Mode summary on Nu complete on the wiki. =w= It was more simpler to write compared to Ragna since she didn't have much happening in the game lol.
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Something I just realized while looking through the Story Mode while I was writing articles for the Wiki: Izanami to Hazama: My vessel was once broken by you. It can't be helped that it is showing rejection towards you. Nu (Synchronized with Noel) to Ragna: The reason the fusion between Noel Vermillion and Yuuki Terumi failed may have been because he was the man who took away everything, my (Noel/Saya's) family, and had destroyed my mind to pieces. I (Noel) wouldn't want to become his heart even if I (Noel) died. Izanami, who has Saya's body knows about the fact Terumi had broke Saya before. Noel, who is speculated to have Saya's soul, had remembered about the past that happened after the events of Ragna and Celica's tragedy during the events of her smelting to become a material for the creation of a Black Beast and about the events of when Terumi had "broke" her. This really supports the theory about Body and Soul theory. Really it should be obvious and are you gonna put this on the wikia?
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Really it should be obvious and are you gonna put this on the wikia? Some people don't find it obvious. That's why I am saying this. The fact that Ragna, Jin and even Rachel still designates Izanami as Saya is the confusing factor for some people. Which is why I saying that the reason might because of the vessel's influence instead of the soul itself. It's already on the wiki on Nu's page now in her summary for Chronophantasma. Need to edit Noel's part along with it though.
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Some people don't find it obvious. That's why I am saying this. The fact that Ragna, Jin and even Rachel still designates Izanami as Saya is the confusing factor for some people. Which is why I saying that the reason might because of the vessel's influence instead of the soul itself. It's already on the wiki on Nu's page now in her summary for Chronophantasma. Need to edit Noel's part along with it though. To be fair Rachel did called her Izanami during their last conversation during the ending and about Nu being a yandere to Ragna due to Saya's could because Izanami tainting it and since she is control Saya's body without her soul but with some of her influence she could be responsible for that.I notice Nu and Izanami possessing Saya are somewhat connected. Also what about Terumi I saw you and Zedar having wikia accounts so are you gonna update it?You also forgot to mention ragna's attitude and temperament getting better as well. Edited January 9, 2014 by Toxin45
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 To be fair Rachel did called her Izanami during their last conversation during the ending and about Nu being a yandere to Ragna due to Saya's could because Izanami tainting it and since she is control Saya's body without her soul but with some of her influence she could be responsible for that.I notice Nu and Izanami possessing Saya are somewhat connected. Also what about Terumi I saw you and Zedar having wikia accounts so are you gonna update it?You also forgot to mention ragna's attitude and temperament getting better as well. Rachel already knew Izanami for a long time although their relationship is not explained. Rachel had asked Ragna if he could "kill his sister", which Ragna said he will do it without a doubt. Although Rachel does call Izanami "Meiou Izanami", she had also called her "Ragna's sister" on Episode 1. Nu being a Yandere is more speculated to be the fault of the programming and adjustments that Relius and Hazama gave her. For one thing, Nu was not Izanagi no Tsurugi during Calamity Trigger also the fact she had a more kinder personality during the events of Continuum Shift. Izanami possessing Saya has nothing to do with Nu. I would only edit Terumi and Hazama if I feel like it considering he is on my hate list. As for Ragna's personality, his personality has always been nice, just that he kind of hid it due to the path of revenge he had walked. I had already put in his improvement in personality.
Toxin45 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Rachel already knew Izanami for a long time although their relationship is not explained. Rachel had asked Ragna if he could "kill his sister", which Ragna said he will do it without a doubt. Although Rachel does call Izanami "Meiou Izanami", she had also called her "Ragna's sister" on Episode 1. Nu being a Yandere is more speculated to be the fault of the programming and adjustments that Relius and Hazama gave her. For one thing, Nu was not Izanagi no Tsurugi during Calamity Trigger also the fact she had a more kinder personality during the events of Continuum Shift. Izanami possessing Saya has nothing to do with Nu. I would only edit Terumi and Hazama if I feel like it considering he is on my hate list. As for Ragna's personality, his personality has always been nice, just that he kind of hid it due to the path of revenge he had walked. I had already put in his improvement in personality. well that's not surprising about terumi and hazama but are you gonna edit "Izaya",Jin,and hakuman,with tsubaki?
Shinhwa Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 well that's not surprising about terumi and hazama but are you gonna edit "Izaya",Jin,and hakuman,with tsubaki? Only if I feel like it.
Master Of Chaos Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 It's not confirmed as of yet and hasn't been given any DIRECT evidence or mention. I admit that the conversation that Shinhwa posted is good proof, but on it's own it doesn't outright confirm it. There are other possible explnations, and there is still a big gap to fill before this explanation can be taken as fact. Namely, the how, when, why, and who, of how Saya's soul escaped Izanami and came to reside inside Noel, and what it means about Noel's existence. Personally, my theory is that Saya's soul is still repressed by Izanami, and she's reaching out through Noel now that she's nearby. I think it makes more sense that Noel's actions are a result of being an untempered unit that's near the orginal. Soul jumping seems a bit too implusable without further evidence or explanation, imo. On this subject, what exactly is Hazama's state of existance? He's called a vessel, the same as Saya, but does that mean he has a soul as well?
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