Toxin45 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 We don't know that...? And I don't think she will. The whole thing about Noel in CP is that "It doesn't matter what I am or where I come from. I'm Noel Vermillion! Nobody else!" So if she just started to consider herself Saya it would kinda ruin all that. How will that ruin that and Neither Lambda and Nu carries the full memories of Saya and Noel being saya I mean she said nii-sama about Ragna about three times and when Nu sycronizied with her Her memories return so they are hinting that she is Saya.
KD-D Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 That could just be some distortions caused by the memories Noel might has some how recieved form the original Saya, similarly to what Lamby/Nu experienced.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Ragna isn't brainwashed, he can still think normally it's only that he can't control the body, it moves on it's own. Now whatever it's all the time or only for time to time it's hard to say, but I would guess it's for time to time since Kagura asked where that Idiot had gone to, and that Ragna is hard to find. If I would guess someone to have something to do with Ragna to get control over the Grimoire is that Homura uses his power as a Amanohokosaka to make Ragna be able to "talk" with it and understand it better to not be controlled by it. I was actually thinking of something along those lines: Ragna comes to some realization about himself and embraces the grimoire's power and uses it as his own, because isn't that what the Azure is, to make what one perceives real? In any case, Noel. She's not Saya, plain and simple, but for all intents and purpose she does act like a sibling to Ragna & Jin, so yea...semantics.
Chaoschao222 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Posted February 8, 2014 This is starting to get full retard in here... again... Report dumb posts instead of adding to them.
Zedar90 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 I was actually thinking of something along those lines: Ragna comes to some realization about himself and embraces the grimoire's power and uses it as his own, because isn't that what the Azure is, to make what one perceives real? What I know about the Azure: Terumi call it the power of Creation and Destruction. The ones who has seen been using it is Ragna(Man of Azure), Noel(Successor of the Azure) and Es(Embryo). It's known as the all knowing and all powerful power. It's source/root is the Master Unit. And from what the Arbitrator Kagari Touya taught Touya in Xblaze was that if you want to use the power of the Black Beast, one must play by it's rules and have a strong fitting will. Right now Ragna doesn't seem to really understand it nor have the right kind of will for it.
Master Of Chaos Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Wasn't Hazama also called the "Man of the Azure (Blue/Green?)"? What's the difference between the two?
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 What I know about the Azure: Terumi call it the power of Creation and Destruction. The ones who has seen been using it is Ragna(Man of Azure), Noel(Successor of the Azure) and Es(Embryo). It's known as the all knowing and all powerful power. It's source/root is the Master Unit. And from what the Arbitrator Kagari Touya taught Touya in Xblaze was that if you want to use the power of the Black Beast, one must play by it's rules and have a strong fitting will. Right now Ragna doesn't seem to really understand it nor have the right kind of will for it. Oh, that could be interesting to see in BB4: Ragna understanding the beast and becoming far more powerful. But something I'm trying to figure out, is Ragna the only one who can utilize the power of the Black Beast or do Noel, Terumi, and Es have the same capability? From what it sounds like, only Ragna and Touya have the potential to attain the Azure's true power.
Zedar90 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Wasn't Hazama also called the "Man of the Azure (Blue/Green?)"? What's the difference between the two? I dunno, that is what Relius is calling them. For Ragna it is the kanji 蒼(blue,azure) and for Hazama it is 碧(blue,green). A thing also is that when Kokonoe had a look if Hazama was anywhere near the Tournament, she wasn't looking for Hazama really, she was searching for 碧. Seriously, what is 碧 and how is it different from 蒼? Is 碧 a corrupt version of 蒼? Oh, that could be interesting to see in BB4: Ragna understanding the beast and becoming far more powerful. But something I'm trying to figure out, is Ragna the only one who can utilize the power of the Black Beast or do Noel, Terumi, and Es have the same capability? From what it sounds like, only Ragna and Touya have the potential to attain the Azure's true power. Es could do whatever she wanted with the world after she touched the Master Unit, the only reason she couldn't get rid of Sechs herself was because he had Kusanagi. She erased all traces of her, however Touya had some memories left of her and the last remaining Es-N(nu) became N(nu). Terumi does seem to have some of the Black Beast's power, after all the reason why he can cancel Ragna's grimoire was because it was bigger and stronger. But then again, Ragna's grimoire is broken, it's not meant to be eating souls all the time. Edited February 8, 2014 by Zedar90
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Wait, its broken? So its still incomplete without Nu's half?
Zedar90 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Wait, its broken? So its still incomplete without Nu's half? From the Library: It's normally meant to use the "Power of the Boundary" to temper a power to combat the "Master Unit" however after draining to many souls it started to act like a "Black Beast" and drain souls all the time. So yeah, Ragna really has bad luck, if it wasn't broken then he didn't really need to train hard to suppress the draining and avoid his loved ones.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 I think its because Ragna's grimoire was originally the black beast, so its naturally inclined to take souls; so I guess its just something Ragna needs to overcome. So Noel's or Terumi's Azure's were never broken, the former probably because she has the Kusangi, and Terumi because he created the grimoire in the first place.
harmless kitten Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Noel doesn't even have an Azure Grimoire in the first place. She can tap into the power of the Azure itself, no grimoire necessary. THAT'S one of the things that made her so special. Ragna's grimoire is probably just a shitty prototype with no off switch and Terumi was able to further refine the Azure Grimoire after the catastrophic failure of the Black Beast. I think he says something about learning tons of shit from its failure in most CS arcade endings.
Luminos564 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 OK this is starting to get real comical. I mean how much more screwed can Ragna's life get? So what, him living on borrowed time while some unspeakable "evil" eats at him from the inside and his Azure Grimoire spreading wasn't enough for CP, so instead they now make his Azure Grimoire a "faulty" one that always eats souls? What's next, are we going to learn that in reality he was also dying of magical fantasy cancer that not even Celica's magic cannot cure and the only thing keeping him alive was the Imperator? I mean, I've heard of stacked odds but this is ridiculous. I'm surprised he hasn't been reduced to the same state Cloud of FF7 was after he took a nosedive in pure Mako.
Master Of Chaos Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I think you guys missed the part where it was said that Jubei TRAINED Ragna to make sure his Azure DOESN'T do that, at least as long as he can focus on preventing it from doing so and he doesn't stick around people for extremely long periods of time. We've known that the Azure drains energy from people since CT, we just know now why the specific reason is. Seriously, what is 碧 and how is it different from 蒼? Is 碧 a corrupt version of 蒼? Talked to my buddy about this. He said that there isn't any real significant difference and that they're just different kanji with similar meanings. Edited February 9, 2014 by Master Of Chaos
Lucalibur Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 tbh a lot of the shit that happen to Ragna is his fault. He is the one putting his nose in all sorts of different places and getting into all sorts of different messes by his own decision. The church incident is really the only thing he had no control over, and even the azure could probably be removed if he were to have decided to live a normal life before, albeit with a single arm only.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I don't think the Azure can be removed, its nature is to consume everything around, including the weilder and ya know..I wonder if Ragna would bleed out if it was removed, isn't it the only reason he was even able to survive getting his arm cut off in the first place? Then again, he lost his left arm with no problems soooo. But yea, as much shit as Ragna gets, its mostly his own fault; even he acknowledged that he just kinda accepted the power of the Azure without even understanding the nature of it or trying to, he just wanted it for the sake of destroying everything that pissed him off. And he's a self righteous asshole who tends to put his foot in his mouth. I still love him, but yea...he's not completely devoid of fault when it comes to his misfortunes.
Master Of Chaos Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 tbh a lot of the shit that happen to Ragna is his fault. He is the one putting his nose in all sorts of different places and getting into all sorts of different messes by his own decision. The church incident is really the only thing he had no control over, and even the azure could probably be removed if he were to have decided to live a normal life before, albeit with a single arm only. I think you missed the part where he was dying and the only reason he's still walking around is because he got the Azure. And I disagree. The only thing he tries to actively get himself involved in is shoving his sword right up Terumi's ass (And you really expect him to just forget the person who completely fucked up his life? I wouldn't). He doesn't want anything to do with anything else, the world just happens to throw him into it.
Luminos564 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I think you guys missed the part where it was said that Jubei TRAINED Ragna to make sure his Azure DOESN'T do that, at least as long as he can focus on preventing it from doing so and he doesn't stick around people for extremely long periods of time. We've known that the Azure drains energy from people since CT, we just know now why the specific reason is. Yeah, if he can focus on it sure. But have you forgotten he is, as far as we know, human? And I believe humans still need to sleep from time to time meaning he can't really control it all the time. And that excluding points where he isn't rendered unconscious, having the Azure itself start acting up like against Azrael and now that the Imperator can make him go haywire on a whim. tbh a lot of the shit that happen to Ragna is his fault. He is the one putting his nose in all sorts of different places and getting into all sorts of different messes by his own decision. The church incident is really the only thing he had no control over, and even the azure could probably be removed if he were to have decided to live a normal life before, albeit with a single arm only. To be fair, would any young, impressionable teenager get their arm cut off by gleeful psychotic, their home burned down, their sickly sister kidnapped and younger bro turning into a nutcase just decide to go "Well I lost everything I had and am now one arm less of a person, but all in all, I'm a lucky guy"?
Master Of Chaos Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Well he's been doing a good job of that so far from what we've seen, although I admit that the Imperator's ability puts a bit of a damper on that...
Lucalibur Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I think you missed the part where he was dying and the only reason he's still walking around is because he got the Azure. And I disagree. The only thing he tries to actively get himself involved in is shoving his sword right up Terumi's ass (And you really expect him to just forget the person who completely fucked up his life? I wouldn't). He doesn't want anything to do with anything else, the world just happens to throw him into it. Not just Terumi, but NOL in general, even the casual workers who have nothing to do with the crap he was put through. While it's understandable he does what he does, he still had the CHOICE, and with choice comes consequences. Yeah, you and me would probably do the same, and it would, again, be understandable, but an eye for an eye and the world will go Tsubaki. @Luminos Gotta be positive! He was lucky to get away alive, at least. Mind you, I'm not saying what he does is not within reason, but it was still his choice to go with his actions, and those actions brought even more bullshit to his life. Admittedly, he didn't really have a lot else to lose by that point, but it was his decision to go with revenge anyway.
Toxin45 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Not just Terumi, but NOL in general, even the casual workers who have nothing to do with the crap he was put through. While it's understandable he does what he does, he still had the CHOICE, and with choice comes consequences. Yeah, you and me would probably do the same, and it would, again, be understandable, but an eye for an eye and the world will go Tsubaki. @Luminos Gotta be positive! He was lucky to get away alive, at least. Mind you, I'm not saying what he does is not within reason, but it was still his choice to go with his actions, and those actions brought even more bullshit to his life. Admittedly, he didn't really have a lot else to lose by that point, but it was his decision to go with revenge anyway. Yeah but he did give up revenge just needs to work on his people saving skills. Although it seems Nu thinks fighting to the death of Ragna is the only thing she understands and she states that it's sad to see Ragna saving people rather than killing them including herself. So I guess she was "raised" that way. Edited February 9, 2014 by Toxin45
Shinhwa Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Ragna needs to educate that bitch. That's what everyone wants pretty much...
Luminos564 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 That's what everyone wants pretty much... You can't really blame them though. Bitch be crazy, and not in the sense where her "hotness" factor outweighs it. Maybe its just me, but when you give an earnest effort in trying to save someone and they repay you by stabbing you in the back, I think you're perfectly entitled to put the ol'girl to bed. Permanently.
Zedar90 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 You can't really blame them though. Bitch be crazy, and not in the sense where her "hotness" factor outweighs it. Maybe its just me, but when you give an earnest effort in trying to save someone and they repay you by stabbing you in the back, I think you're perfectly entitled to put the ol'girl to bed. Permanently. But then again, Nu is very clear with what she want and she said it only moments before Ragna defeated her inside Take-mikazuchi. To kill Ragna and to be killed by Ragna for all eternity. Or for them to fuse together and destroy everything. Ragna was only too naive and thought that he could simply beat her once and she would become a nice girl since in his mind Nu wants to be saved.
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