Chrono Phantasma Speculations/Theories [rules updated 10/14]

[kylehyde]

Not a single peep about Celica, I wonder if her role in the game has taken a back seat in this game.

[Luminos564]

Not a single peep about Celica, I wonder if her role in the game has taken a back seat in this game.

 

That's because she's, more or less, done. She served her primary narrative purpose: motivate Ragna into being a not-so-real asshat more introspective on his own life's choices. Unless ASW can shoehorn in her importance again on the pretense that Nine is going to be directly involved now and that limited time-span thing that Japanese games/anime love to throw around like confetti, Celica has about as much to offer to the CF plot now as Litchi and Taokaka do. And I need not remind anyone how LITTLE they actually contribute now do I? Well...I suppose Celica has "shipping" going for her but that's a business ill suited for this thread...

 

That being said, Celica COULD be used to show how far/low Nine's character has actually fallen since joining up with Death Goddess Mikado Izanami. If you remember, Nine was more or less Big Sister Templar when it came to Celica and was willing to condemn thousands upon thousands of souls by turning them into Nox Nyctores power batteries when the other option was to simply sacrifice Celica to use the Kushinada's Lynchpin. Though for full effect, you would need to have Kokonoe and Nine here as well since they are her only remaining family.

[BlackYakuzu94]

The latter is far more likely, I doubt Mori would drop his waifu off just like that.

[VermilionBird]

Litchi still has a lot of relevance, just not in the main plot. The whole Arakune and Litchi subplot is one of my favourite parts of BlazBlue, and I imagine it might reach its conclusion in CF.

[Luminos564]

The latter is far more likely, I doubt Mori would drop his waifu off just like that.

 

It's Mori though. He ditched Noel to a more backseat role because Celica needed plot relevance. The man has about as much loyalty to his waifu of choice as a starving bear has restraint in front of a fresh carcass. For all we know: Lamb-chops could turn out to be his waifu in CF or even Nine could be his "new squeeze".

[BlackYakuzu94]

That's true; I feel like most of the subplots aren't really going to have satisfactory conclusions, especially if it follows CP's story structure.

[VermilionBird]

Lamb-chops could turn out to be his waifu in CF

Lamby already had her chance in Alter Memory 

[kylehyde]

In terms of where the story left off I think that Rachel might actually take on the main female MC position in this game. Mori did say that the final game would explain on what exactly Ragna and Rachel's relationship was. We still don't know Rachel's motivation through out the games, or what exactly she knows about Ragna that no one else seems to know. Or even why she knows so much about him. Then add Naoto in the mix who has relevance to "Raquel" and it becomes kind of Rachel centric game, at least plot wise.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So rachel end confirmed? I always knew he was a lolicon.

 

 

But wait, where did you read the game would be about Ragna & Rachel's relationship?

[SuzakuRainmaker]

So, with Noel caught up in main event things, and Tsubaki on the edge of that thanks to Rachel's 'only you can kill us' bombshell at the end of CP, where does this leave Makoto? There's no way she's a main event player anymore, despite being shown on that level in CSEX, and her biggest story thread aside from this has been pretty much wrapped, with her successfully getting Tsubaki back, so does she just fall back in line with the Tagers and Taokakas of the world now? Midcard gag reel fodder?

 

I-Is it over for her, Dustloop? hold me. i'm scared.

[kylehyde]

Well not so much about their relationship but more like what the deal with Rachel and Ragna is. It was an interview with Mori where he says that stuff, and the interview is on the dvd disk that came in the LE of chronophantasma.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So, with Noel caught up in main event things, and Tsubaki on the edge of that thanks to Rachel's 'only you can kill us' bombshell at the end of CP, where does this leave Makoto? There's no way she's a main event player anymore, despite being shown on that level in CSEX, and her biggest story thread aside from this has been pretty much wrapped, with her successfully getting Tsubaki back, so does she just fall back in line with the Tagers and Taokakas of the world now? Midcard gag reel fodder?

 

I-Is it over for her, Dustloop? hold me. i'm scared.

 

I mean, she was a character created as leftovers from two other, more important characters. She never had much of a chance.

 

Hey, she at least played a major supporting role, that's more than that people like Bullet can say :V

 

 

 

Makoto might just end up helping Noel(and probably Celica) save Ragna, because she's a good friend like that and any friend of Noel's is automatically a friend of hers and all that jazz. 

[SuzakuRainmaker]

Makoto might just end up helping Noel(and probably Celica) save Ragna, because she's a good friend like that and any friend of Noel's is automatically a friend of hers and all that jazz. 

 

As long as he remembers the golden rule of HEY, EYES, UP HERE.

 

You mentioned Bullet though, and I dunno, I feel like she has a chance to do some really special shit in CF. Maybe not main event 'LOOK AT THAT I KILLED YOUR MOM TELL ME WHERE MY CAPTAIN IS' level shit, but still far more than she did in CP or CPEX.

[BlackYakuzu94]

If so, its definitely going to be mainly tied the Sector 7 storyline, and Kokonoe's pretty much the main character as far as that plot point is concerned.

[mAc Chaos]

im guessing its going to be CT time loops again

[SuzakuRainmaker]

If so, its definitely going to be mainly tied the Sector 7 storyline, and Kokonoe's pretty much the main character as far as that plot point is concerned.

 

If that gets me infinitely more Koko and Bullet interactions (or more of either of them in general), I will happily take it.

 

The two angriest motherfuckers on the planet in an eternal war of 'NO I DIDN'T, YES YOU DID'. 10/10, would watch at Wrestlemania.

 

[Cerotech Omega]

So, with Noel caught up in main event things, and Tsubaki on the edge of that thanks to Rachel's 'only you can kill us' bombshell at the end of CP, where does this leave Makoto? There's no way she's a main event player anymore, despite being shown on that level in CSEX, and her biggest story thread aside from this has been pretty much wrapped, with her successfully getting Tsubaki back, so does she just fall back in line with the Tagers and Taokakas of the world now? Midcard gag reel fodder?

 

I-Is it over for her, Dustloop? hold me. i'm scared.

 

I mean, she was a character created as leftovers from two other, more important characters. She never had much of a chance.

 

Hey, she at least played a major supporting role, that's more than that people like Bullet can say :V

 

 

 

Makoto might just end up helping Noel(and probably Celica) save Ragna, because she's a good friend like that and any friend of Noel's is automatically a friend of hers and all that jazz. 

I wouldn't be 100% certain about Makoto's role ending just like that. People seem to lose track of a few things about her, and if Mori has demonstrated something in CPX, it's that he can go back and bring events to light that help expand presumed-forgotten characters (Litchi and Roy, anyone?). Let's see what we know and don't know so far.

• Aside from her Academy friends and whoever else she met thus far, who was Makoto most "in it" for? Let's jog your memory: "Meh. I should quit bitching. A job's a job. Can't help out the family just sitting on my tail." Just because Makoto's been more focused on her friends' well-being doesn't mean that her family's been out of her mind, and with Doomsday having gone down, trying to figure out just what happened to them is going to take some manner of priority in her mind. The only reason she wouldn't think about them is if she knows deep down that they're dead, which isn't something that's very likely unless it's explicitly spelled out to her.
• "Impressive. Surprisingly so! Suddenly, Colonel Clover's interest in you seems much less... 'random and untoward', shall we say?" The only reason I can see Relius not focusing on Makoto in any significant capacity during CP is if acquiring the Lynchpin was achievable in the short term: if he could pull that off, then even Makoto's soul would be beneath his concern, but since that option was denied him, he'd likely plan for the longer term with intent to incorporate her somehow. With him being broken and hooked on Carl and Litchi's leash at the end, I'd like to believe he's on the level, but with everything he did in the past, there's a part of me that just knows better. He'd be all for dealing with Izanami, however; the question left is what happens to everyone else when he does.
• Arcade commentary took a turn for the canon when Lambda pointed out in her CPX commentary that she was starting to remember her "CS alternate path" after facing off against Makoto. So what else was said about her that didn't have to do with the villains, her friends or her appearance? "Target has a strong resistance to seithr... Surrounding seithr eroding at a rate of 0.2%." "To think there are souls in this world as pure as yours. I suggest you cherish that rare commodity, for the sake of us all..." "Fascinating technique. I am sure you will be able to save your friend. I shall watch you from the shadows." Bang may be somewhat questionable, but we have two of the Six Heroes interested in her potential, and not only does she actually have a noted seithr degeneration rate, but it is also noted as being lower than normal, something even nihilistic Mu-12 stated in CS ("Target's resistance to seithr exceeds established parameters. Executing research protocols..."). On top of that, her soul was pulled into the Boundary and returned completely intact; Rachel can vouch for that, and Makoto remembering that particular event during Chronophantasma Chapter 9 confirms that Slight Hope is canon (for those who forget, she mentions it just before Tsubaki shows up).
• There's also unwritten potential given what Makoto has managed to accomplish in Arcade Mode before Takamagahara wrote it out: she nearly pretzelled Terumi's entire plot singlehandedly (for a second time at that) had it not been for his sudden appearance earlier than normal in CS Arcade, and it was enough to make him focus on killing her instead of Jin in the latter's CS story (he changed gears to killing Jin when it was clear he wasn't going to bullshit his way out of this one); and she managed to make Mind Eater lapse in CP Arcade, something not even Jin could accomplish (Tsubaki could only think one line worth of genuine thought in Jin's CP Arcade, whereas she has a speaking line in Makoto's), and that possibility was real enough that Hades: Izanami explicitly intervened just to deny a repeat ("Makoto Nanaya, was it? My desire, which I wish for all things in the universe: death." is not something Tsubaki would say in a million years). What do you think she's capable of doing, now that Takamagahara is permanently offline?
• Lastly, there's her backstory. While Noel and Tsubaki warrant that we know what she did during her Academy years, everything before that is something we know almost jack shit about. What we do know is that it was far from pretty (if her bad ending has her breaking down in record time just from reliving it, it simply cannot be casual racism, and if Amane's Astral is any indication, something happened to make her life take a turn for the "Grade-F Fertilizer" shit), and that she hadn't fully recovered before attending the Academy (she was much nastier for the lion's share of Heart to Heart). There's also Kagura's implied relationship: while the obvious train of thought is a date or a one-night stand, he could be bringing it up to see if she had overcome the whole thing, but since he was introduced piss-drunk with a floozy running out the door, there was no conceivable way anyone could initially expect deeper meaning from that statement. Also keep in mind that she likes Kagura, but hates his lechery, and the discussion implies that they are at least familiar with each other. Finally, if the translations for the CF teaser are correct, Makoto is no stranger to fighting dirty. I doubt that'd be something of concern at the Military Academy, but that only leaves the question of just what could conceivably warrant such familiarity with pragmatic combat.

That is WAY too much foreshadowing and sidethreading for a mere side character, let alone one made from the dregs of writing another character as a lesbian. Mori may have originally designed Makoto like that, but she ballooned out from there into a more significant player than most realize. If there's anything my observations of Makoto's story have taught me, as well as Mori's statements in general, it's that the truth is almost never what's shown at face value. Dollars to brain cells suggest Mori has plans to make her a major player before the BlazBlue era comes to a close (just because Ragna's story is coming to an end doesn't mean for sure that the era will), unless he is a complete hack or has it in for her (she's one of the most popular girls in BlazBlue, if not Arc System Works as a whole, so the latter seems unlikely).

[heavymetalmixer]

. . . Finally, if the translations for the CF teaser are correct, Makoto is no stranger to fighting dirty. I doubt that'd be something of concern at the Military Academy, but that only leaves the question of just what could conceivably warrant such familiarity with pragmatic combat.

That is WAY too much foreshadowing and sidethreading for a mere side character, let alone one made from the dregs of writing another character as a lesbian. Mori may have originally designed Makoto like that, but she ballooned out from there into a more significant player than most realize. If there's anything my observations of Makoto's story have taught me, as well as Mori's statements in general, it's that the truth is almost never what's shown at face value. Dollars to brain cells suggest Mori has plans to make her a major player before the BlazBlue era comes to a close (just because Ragna's story is coming to an end doesn't mean for sure that the era will), unless he is a complete hack or has it in for her (she's one of the most popular girls in BlazBlue, if not Arc System Works as a whole, so the latter seems unlikely).

 

She was in the Intelligence department, so sneaky and dirty misions were common for her.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I wouldn't be 100% certain about Makoto's role ending just like that. People seem to lose track of a few things about her, and if Mori has demonstrated something in CPX, it's that he can go back and bring events to light that help expand presumed-forgotten characters (Litchi and Roy, anyone?). Let's see what we know and don't know so far.

• Aside from her Academy friends and whoever else she met thus far, who was Makoto most "in it" for? Let's jog your memory: "Meh. I should quit bitching. A job's a job. Can't help out the family just sitting on my tail." Just because Makoto's been more focused on her friends' well-being doesn't mean that her family's been out of her mind, and with Doomsday having gone down, trying to figure out just what happened to them is going to take some manner of priority in her mind. The only reason she wouldn't think about them is if she knows deep down that they're dead, which isn't something that's very likely unless it's explicitly spelled out to her.
• "Impressive. Surprisingly so! Suddenly, Colonel Clover's interest in you seems much less... 'random and untoward', shall we say?" The only reason I can see Relius not focusing on Makoto in any significant capacity during CP is if acquiring the Lynchpin was achievable in the short term: if he could pull that off, then even Makoto's soul would be beneath his concern, but since that option was denied him, he'd likely plan for the longer term with intent to incorporate her somehow. With him being broken and hooked on Carl and Litchi's leash at the end, I'd like to believe he's on the level, but with everything he did in the past, there's a part of me that just knows better. He'd be all for dealing with Izanami, however; the question left is what happens to everyone else when he does.
• Arcade commentary took a turn for the canon when Lambda pointed out in her CPX commentary that she was starting to remember her "CS alternate path" after facing off against Makoto. So what else was said about her that didn't have to do with the villains, her friends or her appearance? "Target has a strong resistance to seithr... Surrounding seithr eroding at a rate of 0.2%." "To think there are souls in this world as pure as yours. I suggest you cherish that rare commodity, for the sake of us all..." "Fascinating technique. I am sure you will be able to save your friend. I shall watch you from the shadows." Bang may be somewhat questionable, but we have two of the Six Heroes interested in her potential, and not only does she actually have a noted seithr degeneration rate, but it is also noted as being lower than normal, something even nihilistic Mu-12 stated in CS ("Target's resistance to seithr exceeds established parameters. Executing research protocols..."). On top of that, her soul was pulled into the Boundary and returned completely intact; Rachel can vouch for that, and Makoto remembering that particular event during Chronophantasma Chapter 9 confirms that Slight Hope is canon (for those who forget, she mentions it just before Tsubaki shows up).
• There's also unwritten potential given what Makoto has managed to accomplish in Arcade Mode before Takamagahara wrote it out: she nearly pretzelled Terumi's entire plot singlehandedly (for a second time at that) had it not been for his sudden appearance earlier than normal in CS Arcade, and it was enough to make him focus on killing her instead of Jin in the latter's CS story (he changed gears to killing Jin when it was clear he wasn't going to bullshit his way out of this one); and she managed to make Mind Eater lapse in CP Arcade, something not even Jin could accomplish (Tsubaki could only think one line worth of genuine thought in Jin's CP Arcade, whereas she has a speaking line in Makoto's), and that possibility was real enough that Hades: Izanami explicitly intervened just to deny a repeat ("Makoto Nanaya, was it? My desire, which I wish for all things in the universe: death." is not something Tsubaki would say in a million years). What do you think she's capable of doing, now that Takamagahara is permanently offline?
• Lastly, there's her backstory. While Noel and Tsubaki warrant that we know what she did during her Academy years, everything before that is something we know almost jack shit about. What we do know is that it was far from pretty (if her bad ending has her breaking down in record time just from reliving it, it simply cannot be casual racism, and if Amane's Astral is any indication, something happened to make her life take a turn for the "Grade-F Fertilizer" shit), and that she hadn't fully recovered before attending the Academy (she was much nastier for the lion's share of Heart to Heart). There's also Kagura's implied relationship: while the obvious train of thought is a date or a one-night stand, he could be bringing it up to see if she had overcome the whole thing, but since he was introduced piss-drunk with a floozy running out the door, there was no conceivable way anyone could initially expect deeper meaning from that statement. Also keep in mind that she likes Kagura, but hates his lechery, and the discussion implies that they are at least familiar with each other. Finally, if the translations for the CF teaser are correct, Makoto is no stranger to fighting dirty. I doubt that'd be something of concern at the Military Academy, but that only leaves the question of just what could conceivably warrant such familiarity with pragmatic combat.

That is WAY too much foreshadowing and sidethreading for a mere side character, let alone one made from the dregs of writing another character as a lesbian. Mori may have originally designed Makoto like that, but she ballooned out from there into a more significant player than most realize. If there's anything my observations of Makoto's story have taught me, as well as Mori's statements in general, it's that the truth is almost never what's shown at face value. Dollars to brain cells suggest Mori has plans to make her a major player before the BlazBlue era comes to a close (just because Ragna's story is coming to an end doesn't mean for sure that the era will), unless he is a complete hack or has it in for her (she's one of the most popular girls in BlazBlue, if not Arc System Works as a whole, so the latter seems unlikely).

 

You realize none of this has anything to do with Ragna right.

[SuzakuRainmaker]

She was in the Intelligence department, so sneaky and dirty misions were common for her.

Which makes me wonder just how far down that rabbit hole goes. Silencing? Straight up assassination? Getting some real Naghi Minatsuchi vibes from her after that trailer line.

Actually, thinking it over, Taro was an assassin in a way, right? The Kisaragi family's hired gun to protect Jin? The CP library calls him Makoto's mentor specifically, so I wonder if she studied assassination arts under him now...

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[Cerotech Omega]

You realize none of this has anything to do with Ragna right.

Bullet's vendetta has jack-shit to do with Ragna, and it got elaborated upon in The Rat. He just happened upon her by chance, and only interfered with her when Azrael decided to kill her. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Litchi and Arakune have very little to do with Ragna, and they got elaborated upon in Collision. Ragna just happened upon them by chance, and made no effort to interfere with them hence until Arakune tried to eat Noel in Chronophantasma; the only reason he didn't act further was because Kagura acted first.

 

The Ikaruga Civil War has jack-shit to do with Ragna, and fleshing it out was the entire point of Bang's backstory, part of Jin's backstory, a sizable part of That Which is Inherited, and the entire point of the side stories in Chronophantasma Extend.

 

Wheel of Fortune had the barest of connections to Ragna, mostly revolving around First Lieutenant Tsubaki Yayoi of the 4th Thaumaturgist Division, Ministerial Secretary to Jin Kisaragi. Ragna was only involved at the end, and only made Tsubaki his business because of Nu-13. Even then, he did little to directly interact with her, even when she shielded Jin from Nu's hatred. The parallel instance Slight Hope had next to nothing to do with Ragna, either.

 

The Military Academy backstory had jack-shit to do with Ragna until Remix Heart became a thing, and even then he was only involved in a fraction of it. The lion's share of events unfolded with zero input from him whatsoever.

 

That's five and a half plot threads, four of which have significant connections to the BlazBlue story at large. One of those helps characterize a character strongly linked to Ragna, and another is critical. BlazBlue is a story about the Azure, its champions, and its corrupters, not The Trials, Tribulations, and Endless Suffering of Ragna the Bloodedge. And if the BlazBlue story continues past Ragna's death, Makoto has very strong connections to just about every viable candidate to his replacement (Jin, Noel and Tsubaki are the frontrunners, of course). Your argument is invalid.

 

 

Which makes me wonder just how far down that rabbit hole goes. Silencing? Straight up assassination? Getting some real Naghi Minatsuchi vibes from her after that trailer line.

Actually, thinking it over, Taro was an assassin in a way, right? The Kisaragi family's hired gun to protect Jin? The CP library calls him Makoto's mentor specifically, so I wonder if she studied assassination arts under him now...

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He may just be a sempai to her kohai, a point of which had not been fleshed out in Remix Heart. Still, fascinating. I share your sentiments of wanting to burrow into this particular rabbit hole. I wonder where I can see this Library without the game, seeing as I only have Nintendo consoles, PS One notwithstanding.

[SuzakuRainmaker]

He may just be a sempai to her kohai, a point of which had not been fleshed out in Remix Heart. Still, fascinating. I share your sentiments of wanting to burrow into this particular rabbit hole. I wonder where I can see this Library without the game, seeing as I only have Nintendo consoles, PS One notwithstanding.

 

Not to worry, I took a cap of Taro's Library entry for my girlfriend. Looks like it'll come in handy here too.

 

 

See, it really could just be a matter of him being her senpai, but they could've just as easily used senior or upperclassman there. Mentor carries a different weight to it than those words do.

 

Honestly, I'd just like more Taro in general. Kagura's story in Extend apparently confirms him as still alive and active (I haven't played through myself yet, so I might be off about that), and him having dual assassins in Hibiki and Taro would be pretty damn neat.

[Zedar90]

Not to worry, I took a cap of Taro's Library entry for my girlfriend. Looks like it'll come in handy here too.

 

See, it really could just be a matter of him being her senpai, but they could've just as easily used senior or upperclassman there. Mentor carries a different weight to it than those words do.

 

Honestly, I'd just like more Taro in general. Kagura's story in Extend apparently confirms him as still alive and active (I haven't played through myself yet, so I might be off about that), and him having dual assassins in Hibiki and Taro would be pretty damn neat.

The Japanese version uses the word senpai(先輩).

So probably not the best word was chosen in the translation. It reveals nothing new other than that was known in Remix Heart.

[SuzakuRainmaker]

Well damn, that's kinda disappointing. Not entirely surprising though. Thanks for the clarification though!

[Cerotech Omega]

The Japanese version uses the word senpai(先輩).

So probably not the best word was chosen in the translation. It reveals nothing new other than that was known in Remix Heart.

I wasn't exactly surprised, given how Taro was assigned to Jin, who's been attending the Academy since at least a year before the girls. Some things are lost in translation, though.

 

And Suzaku, thanks for the screenshot anyway. Gaia knows we need all the info we can get, and the Wiki doesn't include Library information besides the page names (links go to character entries instead). I just hope I covered all my bases with that wall of text.