Chrono Phantasma Speculations/Theories [rules updated 10/14]

[TD]

Luminous, surely such concentration of seithr on normal humans would result in consequential effects on the body? Aesthetically, and in terms of power, azreal is superior to that of a normal human, when seithr is bb equivalent of poison in a large enough dose. There would need to be an explanation on how he survived smelling seithr in the first place, besides freak accidents (doubt a radioactive seithr bit him), or tragedy, and why his body doesn't seem at all affected by it and in fact looks healthier than ever.

he was also locked up somewhere for 200 years (though I think it may have been cryogenic which would disprove what I'm about to say), so that apparent immortality would have to be explained along with the bloodthirst.

 

i really can't even begin to brainstorm his origins or amane's, I just know each symbolically over-represents the masculine and feminine traits of man and that they are both cool. I'm hoping they are further explained in cf. amane at least may have a greater purpose; he forbodes a grand stage full of some really great fighting, and you can't spell fight without azreal.

[Luminos564]

Don't forget Azrael is associated with Sector Seven.

I was joking more than not, but yeah he is associated with them, or at least, the group of scientists that let him loose and put that restraint on him. As is Makoto, technically, what with being a double agent for them (well, for Kokonoe specifically) during (or perhaps a bit before) CS.

[VermilionBird]

he was also locked up somewhere for 200 years

Wait, where did that come from?

He was only frozen for a couple of years.

Edited August 3, 2015 by VermilionBird

[Chaoschao222]

he was also locked up somewhere for 200 years (though I think it may have been cryogenic which would disprove what I'm about to say), so that apparent immortality would have to be explained along with the bloodthirst.

I'll admit I forgot the exact time, but I thought he was only frozen for like a couple of years. Definitely within the majority of the BB casts lifetime.

[TD]

Wait, where did that come from?

I'm not entirely sure because it's been so long since I've first did this story but I though after the war he was caught and placed in a prison for about this long? Cp, his debut is when he either broke out or was busted out by someone. May need confirmation.

 

Edit: my apologies, please disregard this piece.

Edited August 3, 2015 by TD

[VermilionBird]

I'm not entirely sure because it's been so long since I've first did this story but I though after the war he was caught and placed in a prison for about this long? Cp, his debut is when he either broke out or was busted out by someone. May need confirmation.

No, no. He was locked up by Kokonoe for a couple of years during the Ikaruga Civil War with assistance from Kagura, Hibiki, and especially Tager. She locked him in a cryogenic prison until his release by a Sector Seven official.

Watch a summary of the Collision story on Youtube and you can find out how it happened.

[Luminos564]

Luminous, surely such concentration of seithr on normal humans would result in consequential effects on the body? Aesthetically, and in terms of power, azreal is superior to that of a normal human, when seithr is bb equivalent of poison in a large enough dose. There would need to be an explanation on how he survived smelling seithr in the first place, besides freak accidents (doubt a radioactive seithr bit him), or tragedy, and why his body doesn't seem at all affected by it and in fact looks healthier than ever.

If we go down that route, then it stands to reason that Azrael is not a "conventional human". There are cases where people have survived very lethal substance doses and lived on to tell the tale. If you'd like a more specific real world example, Ozzy Osbourne was the subject of a Cambridge experiment to determine how he's still so functional after years of drug use. Turns out he's got genes that allow him to metabolize alcohol and opiates far better than any other human being. So let's try to operate on the idea that Azrael's body could function in that regard. It's just extremely rare since most other humans die outright in those cases. And remember, this is magical fantasy poison (Seithr) that we're talking about. That's the equivalent to the radioactive spider and freak supernovas that give all the cool powers to angsty teenagers in comics. Azrael instead is just much happier breaking your spine rather than question his place in life ;).

i really can't even begin to brainstorm his origins or amane's, I just know each symbolically over-represents the masculine and feminine traits of man and that they are both cool. I'm hoping they are further explained in cf. amane at least may have a greater purpose; he forbodes a grand stage full of some really great fighting, and you can't spell fight without azreal.

This is a neat way to look at it. And indeed I do want to know more about these characters if only because the information we've had so far is bare-bones. Azrael is probably the only one of the new additions to have been fleshed out (a bit) until Bullet actually got some development in the Rat. Amane has none but Rachel alludes there's more to him than meets the eye.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Azrael is probably the result of Sector 7 messing with some science and trying to create the ultimate weapon to combat the NOL; think the super soldier program from the Marvel verse. They designed him to resist most environments, which includes seither and be able to kill whoever stood in Sector 7's way. But naturally, things went wrong.

[Luminos564]

Azrael is probably the result of Sector 7 messing with some science and trying to create the ultimate weapon to combat the NOL; think the super soldier program from the Marvel verse. They designed him to resist most environments, which includes seither and be able to kill whoever stood in Sector 7's way. But naturally, things went wrong.

Hmm, I like this idea. It'd certainly explain why he's affiliated with them in the first place (can't imagine Azrael in lab-coat and glasses, teaching the interns about the scientific ramifications of messing with plutonium laced coffee). And of course, we know he's not the most cooperative beeftank so they had him frozen. My only question in that regard is: if the scientists had the means of creating someone like Azrael, why not use the method on themselves after they learned it was possible to create someone like Azrael? Surely obtaining that amount of power within like-minded individuals is preferable than say letting the Mad Dog himself run free again?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hmm, I like this idea. It'd certainly explain why he's affiliated with them in the first place (can't imagine Azrael in lab-coat and glasses, teaching the interns about the scientific ramifications of messing with plutonium laced coffee). And of course, we know he's not the most cooperative beeftank so they had him frozen. My only question in that regard is: if the scientists had the means of creating someone like Azrael, why not use the method on themselves after they learned it was possible to create someone like Azrael? Surely obtaining that amount of power within like-minded individuals is preferable than say letting the Mad Dog himself run free again?

Well whatever Sector 7 did to Azrael I'm guessing probably made him go insane with bloodlust, so they didn't wanna risk that again; in fact, they probably created Azrael and he immediately slaughtered his creators and went on a rampage to "feed" himself.

Like, you ever see the 2008 Incredible Hulk film? Emil Blonsky was relatively normal when he got the serum, if a little cocky. Then he got addicted and wanted more power and got injected with Hulk's blood to become Abomination. Its the same thing with Captain America and the Red Skull. The serum amplifies the inherent aspects of the individual; Good gets better, Bad gets worse, etc etc.

For added drama, Kokonoe was probably one of the headliners behind his creation...maybe, I have to watch her story in EX to support that theory.

[Luminos564]

Well whatever Sector 7 did to Azrael I'm guessing probably made him go insane with bloodlust, so they didn't wanna risk that again; in fact, they probably created Azrael and he immediately slaughtered his creators and went on a rampage to "feed" himself.

Like, you ever see the 2008 Incredible Hulk film? Emil Blonsky was relatively normal when he got the serum, if a little cocky. Then he got addicted and wanted more power and got injected with Hulk's blood to become Abomination. Its the same thing with Captain America and the Red Skull. The serum amplifies the inherent aspects of the individual; Good gets better, Bad gets worse, etc etc.

For added drama, Kokonoe was probably one of the headliners behind his creation...maybe, I have to watch her story in EX to support that theory.

Thing is though, for all his desire to fight and seek a strong enough opponent for him to go all-out, Azrael seems much more mentally "stable" than other typical berserkers in media. He knows he's powerful and has everything he needs to back it up. He's also quite cunning in the sense that he knows he could force Ragna's hand if he threatened the pretty girl that just walked in. He's definitely villainous, but I hesitate to call him insane.

Then again, this is only accounting for his depiction in CP. Who knows what he acted like in the past. And if the "cannibal" attributed to his name by Jin is anything to go by, he's probably got more than his fair share of atrocities under his belt. Time will tell I suppose. As TD mentioned, here's hoping CF sheds some light on the matter. And if the trailer is anything to go by, he's going to be freed from captivity and encounter the now amnesiac Ragna (much to Azrael's delight I'm sure).

[mAc Chaos]

I could see Azrael's strength being a mutation in reaction to seithr, except it's just SO strong. He's stronger than 20% Hakumen with just his first limiter. If the mutations caused by exposure to seithr were that strong then the random animals that were affected by the Black Beast would've become utter monsters instead of beginner level RPG enemies.

 

Maybe he was another experiment to try and stop the Black Beast, just like the Kakas.

Edited August 3, 2015 by mAc Chaos

[VermilionBird]

Maybe he was another experiment to try and stop the Black Beast, just like the Kakas.

Perhaps, but he wouldn't be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Black Beast without an Armagus weapon, which he doesn't have...

[SixWingedAngel]

He's stronger than 20% Hakumen with just his first limiter.

I don't know if you're referring to some extend story, but to my memory, during cp azrael was forced to retreat against an ~20 (or less) hakumen

that said, he's certainly strong, I hope he gets some enlightening backstory and some ACTUAL plot importance because he's kind of lacking both.

[mAc Chaos]

I was referring to the story. It's been a while but I remember Hakumen was having trouble and I got the impression if the fight continued that he would've lost. Maybe I am remembering wrong though.

[BlackYakuzu94]

It didn't seem like Hakumen would lost, but his attacks weren't really doing anything to Azrael so they were kind of at a stalemate with neither gaining an advantage. So Hakumen was like "Screw this, I'm out"

[Luminos564]

I don't know if you're referring to some extend story, but to my memory, during cp azrael was forced to retreat against an ~20 (or less) hakumen

I don't think that was the case. IIRC, he stumbles on both Haku-men and Celica going about and attempts to fight him. A skirmish occurs until Nu-13 flies in and Haku-men notes it is better to leave than deal with him (it is unknown if Haku-men was aware that Azrael cannot fight him unless the former has "fighting intent"). Whether or not Haku-men would have emerged the victor is anyone's guess.

I could see Azrael's strength being a mutation in reaction to seithr, except it's just SO strong. He's stronger than 20% Hakumen with just his first limiter. If the mutations caused by exposure to seithr were that strong then the random animals that were affected by the Black Beast would've become utter monsters instead of beginner level RPG enemies.

Maybe he was another experiment to try and stop the Black Beast, just like the Kakas.

It's true that his power is rightly absurd. But then again, it seems like animals have dampening effects on the Seithr since beastkin resist it (humanoid they may be, but they do have some beastial qualities). Yet people like say Ragna, who got the Azure Grimmoire grafted onto him (and his Azure is really just hardened Seithr IIRC) benefitted IMMENSELY from it. To the point where the Library states that before grafting the arm, Ragna had absurdly low Ars Magus aptitude and only got better after it.

Then again, it's dubious what sort of human Ragna is to begin with. All signs seem to point out that he's not all that "normal" either...

[VermilionBird]

It's true that his power is rightly absurd. But then again, it seems like animals have dampening effects on the Seithr 

Most of the fauna in BlazBlue was either wiped out by the Black Beast or died from seithr poisoning. The species that are left must've undergone mutation from the seithr or evolved to better adapt in typical Darwinism fashion.

The Memory of BLUE short story shows that the beasts that mutated thanks to seithr aren't friendly since even the NOL needs to have barriers put up to stop them from entering. Alter Memory, despite how bad it is, shows the beasts attack rabidly with little prodding to do so. Even in Noel's backstory about how she got Bolverk, she was attacked by a beast close to her family home. Basically, it seems like the species that mutated through seithr are vicious without provocation.

That said, Lao Jiu shows that not all species are outright savage, and are relatively tame. The tartar does as well. I'm loathe to acknowledge it, but a certain Gag Reel says that Makoto has the genes of the "Kagutsuchi Island Squirrel" (even though she's from Shinatsu?). Then again, Lao Jiu was found near the Boundary iirc and acts as an intermediary device for Litchi to stream the Boundary's powers from.

As for the Kaka's being descended from Jubei, well, we don't know anything about the latter. If he can resist seithr so brilliantly, then that might not've been a trait exclusive him and could've been something the rest of his clan had (including Tomonori), but that's just speculation on that part, but it does exclude Jubei and the Kaka's from being a medium to measure seithr corrosion. Kokonoe hasn't really come into contact with it, and Valkenhayn exists out of logic, so neither could be used either. Makoto's traveled through the Boundary without a scratch so she can't be used as an example for how beastkin resist seithr either since her strong soul reduces the corrosion rate.

tldr: all the obviously mutated seithr animals are evil and all the known beastkin can't be used as examples for how to react to seithr since they're all extraordinary cases.

Then again, it's dubious what sort of human Ragna is to begin with. All signs seem to point out that he's not all that "normal" either...

http://abyss-of-the-azure.tumblr.com/post/112142614188/so-theres-a-theory-saying-that-ragna-is-an here's the majority of the evidence in favour for the theory that he isn't human.

[Luminos564]

Alright so forget the idea with beastkin and other animals. But Seithr is known to cause mutations correct? And they (animals) adapted? So it goes back to my original idea that perhaps Azrael is one of the few (or even only) human to be able to adapt to high Seithr concentration without suffering outlandish mutations. Though why he'd be a special case or what the circumstances are surrounding that is certainly a wild guess.

http://abyss-of-the-azure.tumblr.com/post/112142614188/so-theres-a-theory-saying-that-ragna-is-an here's the majority of the evidence in favour for the theory that he isn't human.

Ah right. But of course, what Ragna actually is at this point is still up in the air. Though I question why Rachel strictly demanded him to promise her that he'd always "go on like a human", even when he "might feel like giving up". Perhaps the answer lies there?

[VermilionBird]

But Seithr is known to cause mutations correct? And they (animals) adapted?

Seithr can cause mutations, yup. Animals must've either adapated or mutated. There's probably a few species which haven't done either.
 

[Stryker115]

I don't think that was the case. IIRC, he stumbles on both Haku-men and Celica going about and attempts to fight him. A skirmish occurs until Nu-13 flies in and Haku-men notes it is better to leave than deal with him (it is unknown if Haku-men was aware that Azrael cannot fight him unless the former has "fighting intent"). Whether or not Haku-men would have emerged the victor is anyone's guess.

It's true that his power is rightly absurd. But then again, it seems like animals have dampening effects on the Seithr since beastkin resist it (humanoid they may be, but they do have some beastial qualities). Yet people like say Ragna, who got the Azure Grimmoire grafted onto him (and his Azure is really just hardened Seithr IIRC) benefitted IMMENSELY from it. To the point where the Library states that before grafting the arm, Ragna had absurdly low Ars Magus aptitude and only got better after it.

Then again, it's dubious what sort of human Ragna is to begin with. All signs seem to point out that he's not all that "normal" either...

It's not just hardened seithr

It's the corpse of the Black Beast itself A.K.A his own corpse from another timeline

Which is probably why Transplant Rejection never takes place in any of the time loops

[sg1989]

Your theories on azrael are interesting, but, there are still things that I can not understand about this character, without forgetting the enchant dragunov, that, seeing the extra story mode of sector seven in BBCPEX seems that even Kokonoe not mentions about it (in the english version says she has used the limitator for have an advantage over azrael, but the enchant dragunov had already on his body, but, I hope not to be wrong) .

I wonder who put Enchant Dragunov on azrael, given that, I do not think people outside of Relius or Kokonoe can do this ( and these two do not seem to be involved on it )

But why I have the feeling that Mori will not give any explanation on azrael XD ?

PS: sorry for my bad english

Edited August 4, 2015 by sg1989

[VermilionBird]

It's very likely that Azrael gave himself the Enchant Dragunov (which is probably a Gain Art or Overdrive) in order to limit his strength so he could enjoy fights instead of killing his opponents with little effort. He probably needs to limit it more, since he's only using around 1/8th of his strength according to his Arcade victory quote against Kagura.

[sg1989]

It's very likely that Azrael gave himself the Enchant Dragunov (which is probably a Gain Art or Overdrive) in order to limit his strength so he could enjoy fights instead of killing his opponents with little effort. He probably needs to limit it more, since he's only using around 1/8th of his strength according to his Arcade victory quote against Kagura.

I do not know, I do not think azrael can be imposed the enchant without help.

The enchant dragunov seems to me something very complex for azrael ( magic? ), but maybe I'm underestimating the muscle man XD.

Azrael could be much more than it looks then?

PS: sorry for my bad english

[BlackYakuzu94]

If Azrael didn't cast Enchant Dragonuv on himself, how would he even be able to remove it in the first place, which is something he can do going by his Arcade ending against Ragna.