StylisH Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I dunno; I was watching LK vs SKD from GUTS3 the other day, and even with LK being kinda rusty with Valk, there was no blocking the wolf mixup. The only way wins got had was by winning at neutral.Anyway, 5-5 vs Ragna is about where I'd like to see everyone, and I don't HONESTLY believe they're going to nerf him meaningfully. Remember - you're going off information from ONE nonsense loktest. Its difficult, no doubt. However, its not impossible to block. His niche is insane mixup. He no longer can do meterless 6k combos (which is a great thing imo), his wolf mter regen means a LOT less Sonic the Hedgehog during matches, and newer but slower high/low wolf normals means mixup is more varied, but nerfed overall. I kinda disagree with Stellar (respectfully) as I believe he is still high tier, just not top tier. If Arc takes away wJc he is screwed. He will literally get no damage from the only alternative (wJa) and loss of command grab will be the final nail in his coffin.
TD Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Excuse me. Do you play either of these two characters? Or this game, in fact? I have been playing rachel since bb existed and ragna has been one my most commonly played matches both on and offline. It is safe to say I have years of experience with this matchup, from ct all the way to cp. I can say with utmost confidence that this is a matchup that is only slightly in Rachel's favor. Can you? Or are you just agreeing with the masses? I can break this fucking matchup down to the fingernails if I have to, and I have no problem doing that even if it will take me awhile, explaining my point of view. Can you do that? Shit, if you can, I would love to hear it. I really would. Instead of doing shit like this, the -least- you could do is try to elaborate on why you disagree with what I have said. There is no reason to be condescending. I have ears (well eyes in this case) and am more than willing to listen (or see) you, jourdal, sg(?), or anyone else's thoughts regarding why they would disagree with me; and if I agree or disagree with any or all points made, i will say so and explain why. Respectfully. Let's not forget that this is a learning opportunity for everyone, not the beginning of a flame thread you mods try so hard to prevent. Now, your thoughts? I am willing to hear you guys out regarding the matter.
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Its difficult, no doubt. However, its not impossible to block. His niche is insane mixup. He no longer can do meterless 6k combos (which is a great thing imo), his wolf mter regen means a LOT less Sonic the Hedgehog during matches, and newer but slower high/low wolf normals means mixup is more varied, but nerfed overall. I kinda disagree with Stellar (respectfully) as I believe he is still high tier, just not top tier. If Arc takes away wJc he is screwed. He will literally get no damage from the only alternative (wJa) and loss of command grab will be the final nail in his coffin. That's what I'm worried about. Without w.jC he will be Yosuke levels of "I take 10 combos to kill you" obnoxiousness.
heavymetalmixer Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 That's what I'm worried about. Without w.jC he will be Yosuke levels of "I take 10 combos to kill you" obnoxiousness. Â Then he must be made easier to play, otherwise . . . : /
StylisH Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 That's what I'm worried about. Without w.jC he will be Yosuke levels of "I take 10 combos to kill you" obnoxiousness.  I'm still in the camp that believes they won't change that much about him. The "notes" I've read are so outlandish that they can't be accurate, but who knows.  Then he must be made easier to play, otherwise . . . : /  I hope not. One of the things I like about Valk is his technical difficulty. It keeps a lot of wishy washy players away (see Kokonoe playerbase for references) and makes him more fun and satisying to play overall.  I also love hate the fact that he has a smaller playerbase overall, because as much as people complain about him, not too many players have encountered a good Valk so I know a lot of it is pure bullshit (pardon my French)
Angry Guy of DE Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I feel like they don't know what to do with Valk as a character. The amount of nerfs with the wolf would make you think that they would improve his human form in some way to make up for it, but that would make Too Much Sense. Honestly everything in 2.0 just leaves me wondering why they are making a point to make characters unable to fit into their playstyle with the changes and nerfs. We've already seen with CS 1 Rachel that removing or weakening needed tools turns a character that if played well be very strong to only being passable if played extremely well. I think Valk should be strong in the corner for damage and wolf combos should be built to push into the corner, which honestly should be what every character should do anyway. 2.0 just seem to make it harder for some rush-down characters to rush-down, and oki characters are unable to do oki with these changes. Seriously, who thought to increase the recovery on Terumi's 6D so much that he can't even do a follow-up on it? It's like most people's D moves are now a liability instead of a tool that makes them unique in how they play when they get so limited.
TD Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 It is hard to say what they are doing right at this moment. It does appear to be completely bizarre, but perhaps it will make more sense when, assuming some of his stuff stays, We get to see some more loketests.
BloodWolF Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 They announced 2.0 hitting the JP arcades on October 9th. Loketests probably won't happen in the two-week interim. We'll get to see what their "final" decisions on a lot of these seemingly bizarre alterations are then.
StylisH Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I feel like they don't know what to do with Valk as a character. The amount of nerfs with the wolf would make you think that they would improve his human form in some way to make up for it, but that would make Too Much Sense. Honestly everything in 2.0 just leaves me wondering why they are making a point to make characters unable to fit into their playstyle with the changes and nerfs. We've already seen with CS 1 Rachel that removing or weakening needed tools turns a character that if played well be very strong to only being passable if played extremely well. I think Valk should be strong in the corner for damage and wolf combos should be built to push into the corner, which honestly should be what every character should do anyway. 2.0 just seem to make it harder for some rush-down characters to rush-down, and oki characters are unable to do oki with these changes. Seriously, who thought to increase the recovery on Terumi's 6D so much that he can't even do a follow-up on it? It's like most people's D moves are now a liability instead of a tool that makes them unique in how they play when they get so limited.  Which is exactly why I believe the news thus far has either been fabricated or that at some point they will pull their craniums out from their gonads and apply some sense into the final decision.
TD Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 They announced 2.0 hitting the JP arcades on October 9th. Loketests probably won't happen in the two-week interim. We'll get to see what their "final" decisions on a lot of these seemingly bizarre alterations are then. Completely unrelated: I like how you used interim. I just took that word out in my previous post and then you used it. That is some freaky stuff. Ahem. Anyway, you have a point, it as recently announced. Was every character info announced though? I don't know of this stuff is going to stay...
Synyster17 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Completely unrelated: I like how you used interim. I just took that word out in my previous post and then you used it. That is some freaky stuff. Ahem. Anyway, you have a point, it as recently announced. Was every character info announced though? I don't know of this stuff is going to stay... Â Â i hope not. i want midscreen TLC wall bounce back plz. why not just buff everyone else instead of nerf. Azrael isn't even the best character in the game IMO
BloodWolF Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Completely unrelated: I like how you used interim. I just took that word out in my previous post and then you used it. That is some freaky stuff. Ahem. Anyway, you have a point, it as recently announced. Was every character info announced though? I don't know of this stuff is going to stay... Â We are one, TD.. Â As far as I've seen, no actual character information was announced. There was the small amount of gameplay shown in the stream and that is it. We'll have to wait for hands-on testing come the 9th.
Angry Guy of DE Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 The small amount I saw with Kagura on that one stream with the change to B orb probably will make me look more at other games. I would've been fine with the flash kick change with the better run speed. End of Story, send to press. But the other changes like altering Stance 2A's hard knockdown on air hit to an air tech-able ground-bounce was the game's way of saying that oki was dead for Kagura.
ArisatoGod Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 RIP Gauntlet Hades(Axe Kick to be exact) EDIT: Re-read and noticed that I got Axe Kick and Spin Kick mixed up. The GH followup is what got nerfed not the ID followup Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Justice7541 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Unless you're Gordeau? Merkava's flight oki is a thing, and so are Wald and Carmine's throws, Vatista's IOH, Linne and Seth's cross-ups, Byakuya's FF... - Merkava 50/50 needs knockdown where he is actually close enough to do a safejump. Contrary to popular opinion his mixup and neutral aren't THAT good so he will struggle to get that knockdown in the first place. - Wald 360A has very short range and he has a crap dash meaning he usually needs to assault to get close enough where it's actually a threat, meaning you can AA him when he tries. 360B is techable. - Carmine's command throw is easily reactable, you can jump out after the superflash, same with any other EX throw in the game. If he sets up crystal to cover it you can still DP it and trade with the crystal and he will take more damage than you. It's only a legit unblockable if you're Byakuya since he has no DP, everyone else has some way out I think. - Vatista has no IOH unless you're talking about j.C CS dive/2C which can be DP'd on reaction. - Seth has no crossup unless you're talking about dash C to 623A which is reactable. - Linne has no crossup other than roll 2A which is reactable. - Byakuya's FF is like 30f startup and his FFC glitch has comparable startup and the same FF startup animation, so you can just block overhead either way. All of those characters still manage to open people up and actually win doing combos that deal about 30% of a bar so I'd take that as proof that 50/50s aren't a requirement to actually finishing a round.
D.R.F. Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 RIP Gauntlet Hades(Axe Kick to be exact) Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2 Im gonna miss decent ax kick okizeme
Verimeloni Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Are you guys talking about GH followup or ID followup?
Angry Guy of DE Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Comparing 50/50's in two different fighting games with different offensive and defensive mechanics doesn't really prove or disprove concepts. Cross-ups are reduced in effectiveness in UNiB because the system itself prevents them (mostly because of how absurd hit-boxes on moves can be) while in BlazBlue cross-ups are available to most of the cast in some form, value of it can vary. Blocking is also different since IB and Barrier are two separate things that can be used individually or combined to deal with pressure. UNiB's Shield mechanic...the idea that you are locked in a certain block for a certain amount of time (30 Frames?) that can make attempts to get out of pressure can get you hit because you are forced into a crouch block. Honestly most combo starters in UNiB is from punishing whiffed normal, punishing heavily minus normals on block, staggered strings to catch attempts to press buttons. Mixups generally aren't as prevalent because of the game mechanics and that some of the cast can just do almost midscreen starters for combos. But let's not state the obvious here. I mean we aren't going to say how weak mixups are in street fighter when most overheads don't even lead to combos right?
ArisatoGod Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Are you guys talking about GH followup or ID followup? GH followup Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
NecroTheReaper Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Anyone know if the Jp community is as annoyed with 2.0 as us? I mean, they've actually played the characters we're all complaining about... cept us Relius players. No one knows anything to tell us Relius players.
D.R.F. Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Are you guys talking about GH followup or ID followup? Both for me lol
Myoro Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 They, like us, are prolly waiting to play the completed version before they complain about it too much. Â And don't worry about Rel too much Necro, whatever comes our way, we'll make the best of. We may even come away with a stronger character after all is said and done. Though I agree I want nothing more than to solve the mystery that is Id Zein. Â WHAT COULD IT DO THAT THE OTHER'S CAN'T?Â
D.R.F. Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Both for me lolAnd the GH follow up is keri-age (spin kick if I am correct)
ArisatoGod Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 And the GH follow up is keri-nage (spin kick if I am correct) Damn, got the two confused,sorry. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Myoro Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 And the GH follow up is keri-nage (spin kick if I am correct) Â I always called the first part "Gauntlet" and the second part "Hades"
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