[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Natsu]

well, I realized why I wasn't able to grasp the timing of 3C>22C, because I was idiot enough to do it from zero distance.

anyway I've wanted to ask, why when I do Aerial [5B 5C 5D] the character doesn't get knocked down? maybe it's the settings in training mode?

[Natsu]

So... I just took a look in the Combo Theard and it's f**** amazing how good he is, each and each combo has video.

So, how should I get started? which combos are the most important to learn, because it has way too many combos.

[AMB Bakery]

So... I just took a look in the Combo Theard and it's f**** amazing how good he is, each and each combo has video.

So, how should I get started? which combos are the most important to learn, because it has way too many combos.

AA 5B just leads into aerial combo (j.B j.C dj.D), can follow-up with rekkas or another 5B into aerial on counter hit. 2C blows back too far midscreen to follow up with anything other than 6D/3D.

You should basically be confirming any ground normal you hit with either rekkas or 5B 2C 6D/3D.

2B is your whiff-punisher and DP punisher for the most part. You can punish DP's with a lot of recovery with 3D (CH) > 2C 3D > rekkas > ender

You can follow-up buster with RC 3C xx 22C > 5B xx rekkas > ender (or nothing) or you can follow-up with RC 236D if you have an upper weak point.

Counter hit buster goes into 2B xx rekkas midscreen standing, 3C xx 22C > (5B) rekkas > ender on crouchers, 2C > 2B xx rekkas in the corner. Can do 2C 6D/3D if you have a weakpoint already applied.

6C doesn't go into anything on standing hit, might be able to connect 2A/5A on crouchers. You can mostly only follow it up on fatal counter, in which case you can do 3C xx 2C > (5B) rekkas > ender or 2C 6D/3D if you have a weakpoint. If you FC an aerial opponent, just go into rekkas, or 2C 6D/3D if you have a weakpoint. Also possible to go into rekkas (2 hits) > valiant on air FC, not sure if there's some kind of advanced combo route for valiant with FC, but the standard 5C * 4 3C 6A 2C 6D/3D is still good damage.

Ender after rekkas on aerial opponent is: 5A/5B > aerial if in the corner, 2C 6D/3D if close to the corner but not close enough to 5A/5B, 3D if not close enough to follow up with 2C.

On a ground opponent, rekkas can be followed up with 5A/5B, but only if you weren't in the corner before the last hit of rekkas, and even then it's pretty distance specific, but you should be able to tell cos 5A/5B will actually link.

---

EDIT: Just a couple of extra notes:

"where combos come into play (outside of rekkas)"

Welcome to playing Azrael. Let it sink in that you don't have to do a hard/long combo to get damage. Rekkas are good damage in my opinion, you pretty much know you're going to get at least 2k even off an A normal. Plus the corner carry is braindead, and Azrael is pretty scary in the corner.

"weird situations like anti-airing with 5B or 2C"

Those aren't weird situations, those are your anti-airs (5A is also fine.) 6B is very situational, though it's nice if you want to move backward. You can also troll AA with Valiant/Hornet if you think your opponent is just going to airdash and mash air gatlings.

Some of these aren't exactly the purely optimal confirms, but it's basically what you need to know to function. When in doubt, just expend a weakpoint, aerial combo, or do rekkas.

[Natsu]

Is 6D>TCL only linkble with Upper Weakpoint?

edit: well that was stupid of me, I should've checked the combo thread.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Natsu

[zeth07]

So... I just took a look in the Combo Theard and it's f**** amazing how good he is, each and each combo has video.

So, how should I get started? which combos are the most important to learn, because it has way too many combos.

The section that says "Basic Combos".

[Natsu]

The section that says "Basic Combos".

Well I think it's awesome that the thread has so many combos but seriously, do you really think all of these combos relevant during a battle with skilled player?

It's seems so useless to me to learn them all, although it's developing your technical skill.

Correct me if I'm wrong

[zeth07]

Well I think it's awesome that the thread has so many combos but seriously, do you really think all of these combos relevant during a battle with skilled player?

It's seems so useless to me to learn them all, although it's developing your technical skill.

Correct me if I'm wrong

It's because there are different variables people may want to consider or have to consider.

If one combo only does 100 more damage than another combo but is 10 times harder then the player might not choose to do that advanced one and just do a "BnB". The other thing to consider is any character specifics, some combos might not even work on certain characters (see the character specific section) so you would need a different combo route. Then you have different starters and need to adjust your combos taking that into consideration. And other things like meter, positioning, and weakpoints.

That is why there are the "Basic Combos" which will just let you get by, the "Combo Theory" section to give you a general idea of what you can do instead of specifics, and then the combo lists when you just want to see the notation, immediate differences and test/compare them.

So a "skilled player" would probably want to know the "best" or most optimal combos and knowing combo theory can give them the answer but exact combos let the players see what exactly can be done already.

[Natsu]

It's because there are different variables people may want to consider or have to consider.

If one combo only does 100 more damage than another combo but is 10 times harder then the player might not choose to do that advanced one and just do a "BnB". The other thing to consider is any character specifics, some combos might not even work on certain characters (see the character specific section) so you would need a different combo route. Then you have different starters and need to adjust your combos taking that into consideration. And other things like meter, positioning, and weakpoints.

That is why there are the "Basic Combos" which will just let you get by, the "Combo Theory" section to give you a general idea of what you can do instead of specifics, and then the combo lists when you just want to see the notation, immediate differences and test/compare them.

So a "skilled player" would probably want to know the "best" or most optimal combos and knowing combo theory can give them the answer but exact combos let the players see what exactly can be done already.

Um good answer, I think that I said earlier things because I live in Israel, the fighting games scene is really dead here [we're less then 10 players when it comes to BlazBlue] So I didn't think if one should learn all these combos because I think it overloads the brain with combos and possibilities, but thanks for enlighting me

[zeth07]

Um good answer, I think that I said earlier things because I live in Israel, the fighting games scene is really dead here [we're less then 10 players when it comes to BlazBlue] So I didn't think if one should learn all these combos because I think it overloads the brain with combos and possibilities, but thanks for enlighting me

That's why it's better to just understand the combo theory since you'll just know the combos work instead of going through all the combos individually. The combo lists are just there as "facts" I'll say, not to mention the video examples.

Just to give an example, look at the regular Back Throw combos:

#1 Back Throw > TC > 236D = 3100+

#2 Back Throw > TCL > 3D = 2967

#3 Back Throw > TCL > IAD j.A > j.B > 5B > hj.Aerial = 3516

#1 = Applies upper weakpoint, is easy, does the 2nd highest damage of the three.

#2 = Applies lower weakpoint, is easy, does the lowest damage.

#2 = Can apply any weakpoint, is harder than the others, does the most damage.

(ignoring any character specifics)

So starting out a player might only want to do #1 or #2, and because they are easy they would be considered BnBs. But #3 is clearly the best combo to do, so for a "skilled player" #3 would absolutely be the combo to know. That would be an advanced BnB, since it clearly is worth the little bit of extra difficulty so a skilled player should have it down. Of course there could be character specifics involved which makes it even more "advanced" and might remove it as a "BnB", so if it doesn't work it means you have to fall back on one of the others.

[Natsu]

Oh I think I get it.

the second combo of the pattern is using low weak point and does the least damage, the first using the upper weak point, and the rest, the lowest they get is stronger and more advanced?

Sorry if I'm not completely understandable, English is not my mother language

[zeth07]

Oh I think I get it.

the second combo of the pattern is using low weak point and does the least damage, the first using the upper weak point, and the rest, the lowest they get is stronger and more advanced?

Sorry if I'm not completely understandable, English is not my mother language

No, they each "apply" those weakpoints. I used them as examples to show that each combo was used for a different reason.

[Natsu]

Oh now I got it.

Sorry for my slow pace, I'm still new to the fighting scene

[BladeOfJustice7]

Any Azrael's who live in Upper East Coast North America want to face Hakumanz? I wanna get some legit exp against this character, and you guys seem the most blood thirsty last time I checked to prove your skills.

[LiveWireX]

Any Azrael's who live in Upper East Coast North America want to face Hakumanz? I wanna get some legit exp against this character, and you guys seem the most blood thirsty last time I checked to prove your skills.

I can do some online matches with your Hakumen sometime if you'd like. I mean, yeah I'll always ultimately have Noel as a main, but I'm dedicating equal time Azrael too, so you might spot a few things you can punish.

[zeth07]

Anybody has idea how to deal with -v-13 better?

my friend is played Nu and I can't really get use to it, playing against Nu demands high blocking skill, so except blocking, any one has some kind of combo of espcially good normals against?

Take stuff like this to the match-up threads.

[zeth07]

For anyone who has Kokonoe, please test any important parts of combos to let us know what works and what doesn't. I have no interest in buying her so I'll only be able to do it on the off chance I play against one on netplay.

I did get to play one in only about 2 matches last night and it seemed at one point one of my BnBs whiffed on her when it didn't seem like it should have (against any other character). I want to say it was TCL related but can't remember, maybe it was just my own error or some other character-specific thing that applies to other characters.

Any info would be appreciated for all of us.

[Lucalibur]

I don't have Kokonoe, but apparently her hitbox is super broken and a lot of shit that is universal doesn't work on her. Not just Azrael stuff, but crap like Kagura's 6D~C as well. That might explain why it didn't work.

[RifleAvenger]

I don't have Kokonoe, but apparently her hitbox is super broken and a lot of shit that is universal doesn't work on her. Not just Azrael stuff, but crap like Kagura's 6D~C as well. That might explain why it didn't work.

Like, CS2 Makoto hitboxes broken? That sounds super obnoxious.

[Lucalibur]

Like, CS2 Makoto hitboxes broken? That sounds super obnoxious.

I don't know the details myself, just going from what I heard and a pic or two. Kagura's 6D~C whiffs on her when she is crouching, and apparently Hazama's 6232146C(?) whiffs as well. Her crouching hitbox is clearly a broken mess because of that, but I don't know about her standing one.

[RifleAvenger]

Ok, all my BnB's work on her, including TCL/TCV combos (for both ground and air hits of tiger). If you were doing anything particularly more advanced, I can't say, but our basic routes work on her.

Edited November 7, 2013 by RifleAvenger

[Verimeloni]

I've played against Koko once and I must say, does any other character have an advantage over her fireball like Azrael? Growler is made for that thing. It's a multi-hit projectile so you get full Phalanx-stock and the fireball dies out pretty quick too.

[Naphiel]

For anyone who has Kokonoe, please test any important parts of combos to let us know what works and what doesn't. I have no interest in buying her so I'll only be able to do it on the off chance I play against one on netplay.

I did get to play one in only about 2 matches last night and it seemed at one point one of my BnBs whiffed on her when it didn't seem like it should have (against any other character). I want to say it was TCL related but can't remember, maybe it was just my own error or some other character-specific thing that applies to other characters.

Any info would be appreciated for all of us.

I've got her and play Azrael so it isn't too much hassle. I'll do a run through of what I can think of that might now work on her in the next few hours and post if I find anything.

[LegendaryRath]

I love the intro between Az and Koko. It's probably my favorite so far.

[Kriegdrache]

So, I'm in love with Az, like full on hardo gay.

But I'm having trouble with TCL. I guess it's just practice, but man it's a pain in the ass to perform on pad sometimes.

Dude is cool though, I love doing the 6>5CxN shenanigans.

[Naphiel]

So far everything I've tried except this works. I noticed that throw > 6A > IAD J.C > 214D > 5A > TCL X2 > 236D is fairly inconsistent midscreen. You can get it to land but it has to be real tight (problems connecting 236D, 5A seems to hit thin air but catches all the time). It's whiffed 8/10 times for me.

I've tried pretty much everything I can think of and everything else has been fine. If there's anything anybody wants me to check just post.