[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[LegendaryRath]

So far everything I've tried except this works. I noticed that throw > 6A > IAD J.C > 214D > 5A > TCL X2 > 236D is fairly inconsistent midscreen. You can get it to land but it has to be real tight (problems connecting 236D, 5A seems to hit thin air but catches all the time). It's whiffed 8/10 times for me.

I've tried pretty much everything I can think of and everything else has been fine. If there's anything anybody wants me to check just post.

which character are you practicing on? I can do it consistently, but have noticed 236D wiff on Jin occasionally.

[Naphiel]

which character are you practicing on? I can do it consistently, but have noticed 236D wiff on Jin occasionally.

Kokonoe, since people are saying her hurtbox is weird.

[LegendaryRath]

Kokonoe, since people are saying her hurtbox is weird.

I would not consider doing this combo in actual matches on any characters that it didn't work consistently on.

[Naphiel]

Agreed. Best just finishing off the TCL. I just mentioned that combo specifically because it's the only one that seemed to not land consistently. Even though the 5A after 214D clearly is hitting nothing but thin air yet works every time.

[zeth07]

Thanks for testing stuff out.

[LegendaryRath]

I didn't realize you were testing specifically kokonoe, my bad. Does IAD j.A work after airborn TCL? If not we'll need to use 3D to end strong midscreen combos.

[Verimeloni]

Has anyone tested can Growler Field take Kokonoe's golden Tager DD?

[NecroTheReaper]

It absorbs the whole thing. Every last second of it. Also absorbs her black hole and probably her fireball super.

[Naphiel]

I didn't realize you were testing specifically kokonoe, my bad. Does IAD j.A work after airborn TCL? If not we'll need to use 3D to end strong midscreen combos.

Yeah it works.

[LegendaryRath]

Yeah it works.

awesome! it seems like the good stuff doesn't work on all the characters I get experience with. IAD combos are so swaggy.

[Raynex]

Hey everyone, quick question. During corner combos (specifically 5b,2c, 2b TCL, 5b aerial and other similar ones) I had an issue today where the TCL would cause my opponent to go behind me. 5B aerial would connect but id be comboing them out of the corner which i want to avoid.

This happened against jin, koko and kagura during casuals. It also makes the near corner TCL enders drop miserably (5bb TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B aerial) as tthe TCL keeps sending them behind me.

Has anyone else experienced this? Help!

[LordSpectreX]

Hey everyone, quick question. During corner combos (specifically 5b,2c, 2b TCL, 5b aerial and other similar ones) I had an issue today where the TCL would cause my opponent to go behind me. 5B aerial would connect but id be comboing them out of the corner which i want to avoid.

This happened against jin, koko and kagura during casuals. It also makes the near corner TCL enders drop miserably (5bb TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B aerial) as tthe TCL keeps sending them behind me.

Has anyone else experienced this? Help!

I don't know what the official solution is. But my personal one is that I delay the 6C (final) part of the rekka.

[LegendaryRath]

Hey everyone, quick question. During corner combos (specifically 5b,2c, 2b TCL, 5b aerial and other similar ones) I had an issue today where the TCL would cause my opponent to go behind me. 5B aerial would connect but id be comboing them out of the corner which i want to avoid.

This happened against jin, koko and kagura during casuals. It also makes the near corner TCL enders drop miserably (5bb TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B aerial) as tthe TCL keeps sending them behind me.

Has anyone else experienced this? Help!

This can happen on every character and is solved by slightly delaying the final hit of TCL.

[Raynex]

I'll give it a shot, thanks guys. In regards to 5C (max range) or 5BB xx Gustaf RC 3C combos, I've had similar issues with the 3C whiffing on smaller characters. Again Jin and Koko were who I experienced this with; the 3C wouldn't reach their shins even though I delayed the RC slightly to end up closer.

However, against hakumen, Ragna, or another Azrael I could 'insert move' xx Gustaf from basically any range and the 3C would always connect without hassle. Should I omit gustaf RC combos against these characters? For some context, I use this optimized one in the corner for 4.7k if no weakpoints are applied:

5C xx Gustaf RC 3C, 2B~TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B, j.BC dj.D

[zeth07]

I'll give it a shot, thanks guys. In regards to 5C (max range) or 5BB xx Gustaf RC 3C combos, I've had similar issues with the 3C whiffing on smaller characters. Again Jin and Koko were who I experienced this with; the 3C wouldn't reach their shins even though I delayed the RC slightly to end up closer.

However, against hakumen, Ragna, or another Azrael I could 'insert move' xx Gustaf from basically any range and the 3C would always connect without hassle. Should I omit gustaf RC combos against these characters? For some context, I use this optimized one in the corner for 4.7k if no weakpoints are applied:

5C xx Gustaf RC 3C, 2B~TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B, j.BC dj.D

5BB should be a non-issue on Jin at least. Whether or not you should omit them is up to you since it is an issue at max range but you might not always land it at max range, so it would just be a matter of seeing the distance and confirming or not.

Also if they are crouching it should be a non-issue as well, so you shouldn't ignore them entirely. Also considering going into 3C is the usual crouch confirm you can always keep it in mind when doing the combos.

[Reioumu]

So far everything I've tried except this works. I noticed that throw > 6A > IAD J.C > 214D > 5A > TCL X2 > 236D is fairly inconsistent midscreen. You can get it to land but it has to be real tight (problems connecting 236D, 5A seems to hit thin air but catches all the time). It's whiffed 8/10 times for me.

I've tried pretty much everything I can think of and everything else has been fine. If there's anything anybody wants me to check just post.

I just did this combo 8/10 times, and my drops were never 236D. It's really easy on her, you're probably getting your IADs too late or something.

Something that does mess up on her normally is if you do midscreen 4B+C TC->236D as fast as possible. You need to delay between Tiger and Cobra to get her to float a little higher. Likewise with Jin, Mu, Kagura, Bullet, Noel, Carl, Tsubaki, Bang, Platinum,

Still corner only against Litchi (She can eat a bag of dicks), Rachel, and v-13 ...

Edited November 9, 2013 by Reioumu

[LordSpectreX]

So how do you make people scared to press buttons? What kind of frame traps/move stuffers does Azrael have? I feel like a lot of people are just mashing out of pressure as soon as they see me do something other than 5A/2A/5B/2B.

[butterjello]

If they are mashing out a low, 6C might be worthwhile to throw out, it goes right over them though this is super risky. On CH you get a combo since its a fatal but outside of a CH or on block its straight back to neutral and they could mash out then. Sometimes if I catch someone guarding with 5A > 5B, I like pausing the 5B and skipping 5BB to do another 5B, its not perfect but it'll catch slower moves (you'll be too far if it was barrier guarded). One thing I've found to be be pretty good at catching mashing is to do something that will put enough distance away from someone (like tossing in 2C which you could delay after 5BB as well) then using 3C or just pausing and back dashing or a slightly delayed forward dash. At the end of a string or somewhere where you except someone to mash out, a delayed TCL could land you a CH as well, same goes for Gustaf or even Valiant/Hornet.

[Verimeloni]

Whenever I fight online (especially vs. Makoto) people tend to mash 5a/2a whenever I get a knockdown and dash right next to them. That's why I think it would be wiser to not go right next to them but go to the distance where you can dash behind them, AKA 5b distance for most characters. Then as soon as they get up you dash behind them, their reversal whiffs and you can go 5bb > rekkas or 2c > 6d.

[LegendaryRath]

So how do you make people scared to press buttons? What kind of frame traps/move stuffers does Azrael have? I feel like a lot of people are just mashing out of pressure as soon as they see me do something other than 5A/2A/5B/2B.

Our frame data is godlike. Use moves that are plus on block and just keep mashing your own stuff to counter hit them.

5A+1

2A+2

5BB+5

Gustaf+1

6C+2

5BB > 5B has a four frame gap and is as easy as pressing your B button 3 times.

[zeth07]

How the eff do I deal with this character's blockstrings :X

As a noob Koko, teleporting loses to his oki. Mashing 5A/2A in his blockstrings leads to me getting counterhit, but I can't just block his strings forever.. He growlers my projectiles. I can't jump away because his moves swat me out of the air. I'm also always in a corner.

Please ask stuff like this in the match-up threads as mentioned. It helps generate actual specific character match-up discussion more.

Posts will be moved.

[AMB Bakery]

Regarding the footnote for Gustaf on the wiki: it makes a lot more sense having actually played the game and felt what it's like in action.

From what I see, 236A has 2 parts to its startup: the rush and the actual attack. At point-blank range, the startup to the rush is minimal so the punch can come out much sooner. You can see this for yourself if you just do 236A at different distances, and to really see what I mean, just pause the game on certain frames and look at his sprites during the 'rush' and the 'punch' parts.

[Raynex]

Thanks for all the help with the TCL and 3C stuff, things are more consistent now for me. Btw, has anyone experienced that weird floating Jin glitch with this combo (it works with other characters too)? 5B, 2C, 2B xx TC~236D6, 5C6, 6C6, j.C, 5B6, 623C, 3C, 6A, BHS. After the 3C/6A wall stick he randomly starts hovering in the air behind you. Its actually easier to get the glitch than to do the real combo, which is problematic haha. I saw this same glitch happen to Tahichi in a recent acho match vs. Jin (which shows the Japanese don't have an answer for it yet) and he just did BHS anyway, but now they're sent fullscreen : /

Mod Edit: Match-up stuff moved to proper thread.

Edited November 12, 2013 by zeth07

[zeth07]

Thanks for all the help with the TCL and 3C stuff, things are more consistent now for me. Btw, has anyone experienced that weird floating Jin glitch with this combo (it works with other characters too)? 5B, 2C, 2B xx TC~236D6, 5C6, 6C6, j.C, 5B6, 623C, 3C, 6A, BHS. After the 3C/6A wall stick he randomly starts hovering in the air behind you. Its actually easier to get the glitch than to do the real combo, which is problematic haha. I saw this same glitch happen to Tahichi in a recent acho match vs. Jin (which shows the Japanese don't have an answer for it yet) and he just did BHS anyway, but now they're sent fullscreen : /

Also, match-up section is kind of dead so I wanted to post something quick here. Have any of you guys had problems against Valk / Bullet? I'm having issues doing basically anything, buttons get CH and I block forever. I just get run over, and AAing their approaches doesn't really work because they have so many ways of faking it.

They aren't "dead". And even if they are, that's no reason to post match-up specific stuff here because if you post them where they belong they should generate discussion........thus not be "dead".

Posts will be moved/edited as needed.

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks for all the help with the TCL and 3C stuff, things are more consistent now for me. Btw, has anyone experienced that weird floating Jin glitch with this combo (it works with other characters too)? 5B, 2C, 2B xx TC~236D6, 5C6, 6C6, j.C, 5B6, 623C, 3C, 6A, BHS. After the 3C/6A wall stick he randomly starts hovering in the air behind you. Its actually easier to get the glitch than to do the real combo, which is problematic haha. I saw this same glitch happen to Tahichi in a recent acho match vs. Jin (which shows the Japanese don't have an answer for it yet) and he just did BHS anyway, but now they're sent fullscreen : /

This tends to happen when the opponent is too high when you go for 3C/6A after 623C in valiant combos. Just delay your 3C a little bit after 623C and this wont happen anymore. I can't give an explanation for why this happens, but my best guess would be something like this. The game wants the opponent to fly towards the right until they either hit the ground or wallstick. Since 3C or 6A cross up in this situation and should send them to the left, there's a conflict of direction and they just float there instead. I'm probably wrong but I don't really don't think the exact reasoning is important.