[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[darkpuppeteer]

backdash/growler/IB/CA/Scud/Valiant are your "defensive options". Last 2 are super situational but they can be useful against predictable opponents/super slow moves.

Cant u use 6a to get around most dp tho?

[Ice Cube]

Why would anyone use DP when they're on the offense...

6A has 6 startup frame without invulnerability, so mashing 5A (6 startup frame in total) is preferable most of the time.

[ThatHiroGuy]

So I was messing around in training mode, and I'm pretty sure I just cancelled my dash with sentinel dump. Can anyone verify how this is done, because I can't do it again for the life of me...

[darkpuppeteer]

I tried to cancel and couldn't do it without rapid cancel. Atm need advice on magnum chain rapid cancel then jc 6a jump cancel into air combo

[LegendaryRath]

So I was messing around in training mode, and I'm pretty sure I just cancelled my dash with sentinel dump. Can anyone verify how this is done, because I can't do it again for the life of me...

There was a time when I was experimenting with dash canceling into sentinel but I found it to be (most likely) impossible, or at least very very inconsistent. Because of wonky input priority, it doesn't seem to be possible to tiger knee something like sentinel dump because we'll get Tiger Magnum instead.

I tried to cancel and couldn't do it without rapid cancel. Atm need advice on magnum chain rapid cancel then jc 6a jump cancel into air combo

Practice makes perfect. You need to hit the opponent with j.C when THEY are close to the ground. If they are too high then 6A will wiff under them.

[darkpuppeteer]

There was a time when I was experimenting with dash canceling into sentinel but I found it to be (most likely) impossible, or at least very very inconsistent. Because of wonky input priority, it doesn't seem to be possible to tiger knee something like sentinel dump because we'll get Tiger Magnum instead.

Practice makes perfect. You need to hit the opponent with j.C when THEY are close to the ground. If they are too high then 6A will wiff under them.

Ok also any tips for any good valiant into OD? Btw rath awesome video

[LegendaryRath]

Ok also any tips for any good valiant into OD? Btw rath awesome video

Honestly, I don't use OD too much when I play. Maybe I should experiment more with that.

[darkpuppeteer]

Honestly, I don't use OD too much when I play. Maybe I should experiment more with that.

Sounds like a plan. Maybe we could collaborate sometime

[Noahthority]

Messing around in training mode and found that if you end a valiant charger combo with 2C > 5B you can use another 5B for a reset if they tech right away.

[Verimeloni]

Ok also any tips for any good valiant into OD? Btw rath awesome video

Like this? = 236D > RC > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > (5B) aerial > TCL if enough heat > OD BHS if not > 236A/3D or TC > 236D > {6 > 5C} x 4 > 5D or normal BHS (not sure if it works because of Valiant's SMP). Or if you actually use Valiant to take your opponent to the corner, unless it's a match-win-guarantee you should just end with 2C > 6D / 5D / aerial and meaty your opponent's tech/roll and start a new combo with a weakpoint that you can use OD with. OD after Charger just feels like a waste to me (again if it's not a win-guarantee) because of the wall stick etc.

Edit: scratch that, damage sucks and SMP ruins the loop if you go the double-Valiant route. 236D > RC > 5B > cOD > (5B) aerial > 2C > 6D > 5D > TCL > BHS / 3D is better by comparison.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Verimeloni

[Yusuke Urameshi]

I had a quick question. Does Azrael have to be right up on the person for his combos to hit? I mean when I start from more than range 0 the characters fall out or am I just screwing up my timing?

[Verimeloni]

I had a quick question. Does Azrael have to be right up on the person for his combos to hit? I mean when I start from more than range 0 the characters fall out or am I just screwing up my timing?

It really depends on the move and the situation, some moves have wider hitboxes (compare 5A/5B/2B) than others but for a really helpful answer post an example combo which you're having trouble with. Other than his C moves and Buster/Phalanx Azrael's range is mediocre at best.

[Lucalibur]

5A into 5B might not combo at 5A's maximum range or if it hits an extended hitbox, and 5C>Buster doesn't combo at 5C's max range. Other than those 2, I can't think of any moments where Azrael's stuff doesn't combo properly.

[Yusuke Urameshi]

It really depends on the move and the situation, some moves have wider hitboxes (compare 5A/5B/2B) than others but for a really helpful answer post an example combo which you're having trouble with. Other than his C moves and Buster/Phalanx Azrael's range is mediocre at best.

One of the simple weak point extention combos it's 5A, 5B, 2C, then 6D. Sometimes I can's seem to get the range right for this particular move. Other times 6D whiffs completely. I'm not at max range all the time either. Of course it could just be because I'm bad lol.

[TheArm05]

6D has an enormous hitbox so it usually doesn't whiff horizontally (it can happen in extreme cases). If you are connecting 5A > 5B > 2C then 6D should always work as long as you do it fast enough.

Are they hitting the ground after 2C? If so then you are doing it too slowly.

They shouldn't air tech after 2C in such a short combo so I don't really think you could miss there.

Like with a lot of Azrael stuff you can't just mash out the next move, you have to time it. It just takes a little practice.

I have been messing around with j.D > RC > j.C combo routes.

AA 5B > j.B > j.C > delay j.D > RC > j.C > T(whiff)C > valiant is SO strong. It reaches almost 5k and if you have meter for BHS ender you can break 6k.

I am going to try and implement a bunch of combos that start with no weakpoints and add them in mid combo at the next casual session I go to.

[LegendaryRath]

Good stuff Arm! It seems possible to do the same with 5A anti-air, reaching 4k. There do seem to be some times where the opponent can be too high, but with some practice I'm sure we could recognize when we're comfortable doing it.

[Kinkuli]

Dunno if this has been discussed (didn't see it in Ice cube's okizeme tutorial) but it seems like you can do something like TCL to forward dash 6D/3D in midscreen to get perfect meaty timing and after you are in about +1 situation. I'm probably gonna make sure by asking dogura because i've seen him use this against opponents who have no reversals or don't have 5f jabs (using azraels 5A after the setup trades with 5f 5As and wins if they are slower).

But like said i still wanna make sure by asking dogura.

[zeth07]

Dunno if this has been discussed (didn't see it in Ice cube's okizeme tutorial) but it seems like you can do something like TCL to forward dash 6D/3D in midscreen to get perfect meaty timing and after you are in about +1 situation. I'm probably gonna make sure by asking dogura because i've seen him use this against opponents who have no reversals or don't have 5f jabs (using azraels 5A after the setup trades with 5f 5As and wins if they are slower).

But like said i still wanna make sure by asking dogura.

I can confirm Dogura doing this. I saw him doing it on his stream while in training mode against Relius one day while testing it out.

[ThatHiroGuy]

Found a weird, quirky thing you can do with bigger characters during Valiant charge. I'll upload it soon, as I don't feel like unhooking my PS3 and losing the saved inputs and junk.

Basically comes down to resetting in the middle of Valiant, which may or may not be worth it depending on who you're fighting, and the level of conditioning you've done. I'd say on people who are only sitting there holding a button to tech (or it doesn't really matter, as long as they aren't pressing directions), they'll be hit by the reset, and the cool thing here is this- If timed correctly, you can CONTINUE Valiant charge! I dunno, I'm sure some people may have already known that Valiant continues regardless of conditions (it seems), but I thought it was pretty kewl myself.

Edit: BOOM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfdgIOVjBEA&feature=youtu.be

Edit again: This does work anywhere on screen for large characters (about Hakumen size is your minimum). On smaller characters like Ragna, it works, but the initial 6C won't connect unless starting very close to the corner. Assuming this can be done at any point of the combo, though I'm not sure if it replenishes dash time at all.

Edited January 10, 2014 by ThatHiroGuy

[Verimeloni]

Edit: BOOM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfdgIOVjBEA&feature=youtu.be

Edit again: This does work anywhere on screen for large characters (about Hakumen size is your minimum). On smaller characters like Ragna, it works, but the initial 6C won't connect unless starting very close to the corner. Assuming this can be done at any point of the combo, though I'm not sure if it replenishes dash time at all.

That's pretty neat but extremely gimmicky, though Sentinel is ++ on block but whiffing it may result in you in the corner.

I wouldn't worry about the dash time but if the opponent can tech earlier during Sentinel/does the reset itself work, Charger has a set amount of time for you to go 5C (from watching the video I think you get full Charger after reset, cool!)

[TheArm05]

Yeah I have experimented with mid-Valiant resets. I haven't found any really practical ways to use it but there is one that is pretty strong against Tager since it at least starts with no weakpoints.

5BB > OD > 5B > Scud > 5A > 5B > 2C > 3D > Valiant > (6 5C)*3 > 6 2C(SMP force standing reset) > 6 6D/3D > combo

You can keep using valiant charger for a bit after the 6D/3D to continue the combo and since scud reapplies both weakpoints you get really good damage from the reset. It just takes a HUGE upfront payment with meter/OD for a rather risky setup. One thing to note is even though you have not actually used 236D in the reset combo you can't use it to get a second valiant charger extension. Apparently you only have a set amount of charger time a combo which is odd as fuck.

In case anyone didn't know 6A beats the shit out of counter assaults. This means you can blow up counter assaults by doing a blockstring of 5B > 6A or 5AA > 6A into a full combo which is really devastating since 6A is a rather strong starter.

Edited January 10, 2014 by TheArm05

[ThatHiroGuy]

Predicting counter assaults (if we're talking dead angle) would be a bit difficult. I'm wondering though, would it go through a burst? Because if so, you could do some FUNNY stuff when you predict a burst in the middle of Valiant.

On the topic of resets, it's hit or miss really (as all resets that don't involve grabs). I'm gonna have to try it out on people and see how they typically tech when it happens (if they even tech at all). But in terms of dropping them, or them using directional tech (getting out of it free-ish), I don't think you'll be too much in danger. I haven't even tested what happens when you have Valiant Charger dash time ticking, and are mid combo but tech or drop out.

Edited January 11, 2014 by ThatHiroGuy

[greatfernman]

I can't get the j.D > RC > j.C timing down, the j.C only seems to connect when I had an upper weak point in the first place, I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. maybe it's just cause the screen I'm using now has way too much input lag. am I supposed to delay the j.D until the last possible moment or just a little?

Edited January 13, 2014 by greatfernman

[LegendaryRath]

I can't get the j.D > RC > j.C timing down, the j.C only seems to connect when I had an upper weak point in the first place, I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. maybe it's just cause the screen I'm using now has way too much input lag. am I supposed to delay the j.D until the last possible moment or just a little?

Try this combo out first because it's probably the most lenient. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8R887tFvfc

What's important here is that the opponent is ABOVE you when you land j.D. I recommend learning to slightly delay your j.D, so you give the opponent more time to move upwards. After that, be sure to Rapid as soon as possible and j.C as soon as possible after that.

[Kriegdrache]

Yeah, I was a little confused on the timing myself, but thanks to that video, I got it down a little better, idk how often I'll try to get this in matches, but it looks cool.