[CP] Ragna vs Noel

[floatwater]

Discuss the Ragna vs Noel matchup here:

MOST of the frame data and game-plan from EX still applies to CP.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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Punishes (on block/reaction):

Combo Notes:

I or a Mod will edit OP as more info comes.

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[BlackYakuzu94]

Me and my good friend blackhybrid decide to grind this matchup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuz5xUTIIzU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKx8MakmL84

[Master Of Chaos]

This bitch is annoying as hell. Dat 4D hurghaaaaaa.

Keep your eyes on her at all time when she's in the air, be careful about trying to match her up there. If she gets behind you with her drive and you're not ready, you're gonna get fucked up bad.

[Fistmaster049]

two major things I'd say are needed for this matchup

1) knowing how to block Drive

2) Dead spike

[floatwater]

Uhhh no, Dead spike is meh. She can't 4D jump ins and is again free to anything with F attribute.

[BlackYakuzu94]

You have have to hit out of 4D pretty late tho or you'll get blown up.

[Lucalibur]

Uhhh no, Dead spike is meh. She can't 4D jump ins and is again free to anything with F attribute.

Back in the day Dead Spike covered basically all of her options on wakeup, but the thing got nerfed to death, so yeah. It's a meh option now.

The whole deal with this matchup is that you can't really afford to do as much unsafe shit as you wish you could. Most of her Ds seem to have some form of invincibility, so you can easily get punished for say, whiffing as 2D. ID is a godsend here because you can just use it when you don't want to put up with her shit and only 4D realistically beats it.

Honestly though fuck Noel.

[-Kid]

5D is still quite useful against Noel.

[floatwater]

It's not so much as it got nerfed, Noel's 4D has body and projectile attribute instead of head/body like it used to. So dead spike would just miss completely or clash with 4D's projectile. 5D is only good against 2D but why would you really use it when you can just use 6A lol.

If you land a HF > Tsuika ender in the corner after a 3C/5D[airborne] you can just use the safe jump method. Same goes for Blood Scythe midscreen.

[Lucalibur]

1~19F Head, Body, and Projectile attribute invulnerable

This is what the frame data says for Noel's 4D in CSE, so it always had projectile invincibility as far as this is concerned. Dead Spike has always been a weird exception that hits her out of 4D for whatever reason, but doing a meaty Dead Spike just ain't as good as it used to be, making it a rather moot point.

Safe jumping is kind of hard in BB due to delayed and roll teching, but if they tech properly then yeah, you can just safe jump to fuck her over. I would still rather have the old Dead Spike as a 'do everything for you' tool in this situation, though.

Edit: Nevermind I'm stupid and read that wrong, but I'm pretty sure 4D always had projectile attribute anyway? Dead Spike still beat it somehow.

Edit 2: Yeah just checked and it was HBFP attributes, aka practically all of them.

[floatwater]

The frame data is fucked up.

Also you safe jump JC to a height where it catches roll outs and no techs, along with if they do something like wake up super you'll block. That's the idea.

EDIT: I'll finish doing a write up for all these MU's soon.

[Lucalibur]

The frame data is wrong? My whole life is a lie. I can't play fighters without frame data to tell me what to do.

Hmmm...I got spoiled by meaty Dead Spike so I never bothered to safe jump after Tsuika. Guess I will have to start doing it now if I want to keep that hoe in check.

[-Kid]

5D is only good against 2D but why would you really use it when you can just use 6A lol.

Because you aren't going to use 6A on block, are you? 5D is better to use on block in anticipation of 2D.

[floatwater]

The frame data is wrong? My whole life is a lie. I can't play fighters without frame data to tell me what to do.

Hmmm...I got spoiled by meaty Dead Spike so I never bothered to safe jump after Tsuika. Guess I will have to start doing it now if I want to keep that hoe in check.

I mean you can still catch 4D with a Dead spike but it's not really a good choice since it has to be after the 4D projectile or else it'll just clash with it. In EX you could do it because 4D wasn't invul for 1-26 frames lol.

@Kid: I would.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Crossfire

[Kaising]

isn't it possible to just delay BS when they do 4D in the corner? it seems to work out for me a lot

 

for 2D, i don't think i've fought enough Noels to know

[D.R.F.]

Fool-proof (for me anyway) method of dealing with 4D on wakeup is literally just 2A or 2B on wakeup (meaty or mash crouching jab) 4D lost to that every time I used it and opened up other options. Meaty grab bodies it too, forcing any noel with a brain to respect pressure or roll

[legacy49i]

Noel main (Shitty Ragna sub) here dropping some advice.

 

Noel 4D loses to lows.  2A or 2B is your best option (Like FenrirHades said).

 

Blood Scythe will beat 4D.  A close range Blood Scythe vs Noel 2D will cause both parties to cross-up and whiff.

 

Noel is body invul on 4D and 6D.  4D is Fatal Counter and 6D hits low.  Both are bad news.  Your best bet is to go low, since Noel's 2D will no longer beat lows.  Used to be that Noel 2D would cleanly beat a 2A or 2B, but now it arcs so high that it will whiff entirely and make her look stupid.

 

Also, mashing DP to break Drive pressure isn't really safe anymore.  Noel's 4D will easily beat most DPs in the game.

[floatwater]

I see a lot of people forgot that 2C is F attribute :V 

Also if a noel is using 4D in pressure and you really want to disrespect it just delay ID. 

[legacy49i]

Delayed ID won't help against Spring Raid or Assault Through, though. Assault Through will pass through ID, and I believe Spring Raid will clash with ID.

I don't think there's a 100% safe place to DP, unless your opponent is super predictable, or you have such a good eye that you can tell the difference between 4D, 6D, d.6B on their start-up frames and react fast enough.

[floatwater]

You can OS Spring Raid and Assault Through. On top of you literally being able to react to it. 

[legacy49i]

OS?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Option Select, it's when you do an action that gives you one of two outcomes depending on what the opponent does.

[legacy49i]

Ok, I know what Option Select means, but how are you gonna do that on a CR string with Spring Raid or Assault Through?  Not with ID.  Ragna doesn't have any move that will outright beat Spring Raid.  You can just A mash to beat Assault Through, though.  Also, I don't see how you can just react to Spring Raid.  Unless you have a reaction time of less than 0.13 seconds.  Assault Through gives you plenty of time, though.

[KayEff]

maybe it's just 4A+B

[BlackYakuzu94]

"How to "beat" Optic Barrel Oki, by Kuzu"
 

 

 

 

Who says using Carnage Scissors from full screen doesn't work :V