[CP] Relius Clover vs Rachel Alucard

[TD]

Discuss the Rachel matchup here.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Against Rachel, though I haven't fought the best rachels, I prefer to stay on the other side of the screen. Your long range tools are 214A, 214C, 22B/C. After a 214A you should use j.8/6/2D since they usually attempt to go above Ignis to throw their lobelia projectile. After a 214C use 22B/C to lock her in blockstun or to ruin her attempt at hitting Ignis out of it. Mix all of that stuff up and manage your Ignis meter well. Most of the seeds thrown can be intercepted and blocked by Ignis' moves, meaning they won't fall where they're supposed to. Use 214C and j.8/6/2D to do this.

-Boonendorf

Fun fact, ignis beats all of Rachel's zoning tools and some of her more important normals. Plows through everything in her way and one-shots George. That means the horizontal space rachel controls so well is in jeopardy everytime she attempts to approach by this mean. Therefore she may try to take to the air. If she does this, she loses the advantage of gaining wind. However if she has enough she can effectively start an offense while avoiding the 214 trio

Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Mid range you'll want to poke her with 5B/2B to keep her at a range where most of her moves aren't effective. 5B 6D, 214A if she's a bit too far, 2C/6B(works well since it's faster) as your anti air if she tries to come in with forward jump+wind. Just make sure she doesn't get a pumpkin out. Once you get a hit try to end it in 236C 214A to put her back fullscreen

-Boonendorf

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Close range is the hardest part of the matchup. Either you'll be pressuring her and you'll have to watch out for her electric chair attack. Since it's a move with a guard point you can cancel into 236A to avoid it if you're on the ground.

If she's pressuring you, try to IB most of the stuff to get meter and use your counter assault to get the hell outta here. You'll need solid defense and lots of patience, don't try anything risky and watch out for those throws.

-Boonendorf

In The Air: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Relius has much less tools to deal with airborne foes and they are situational. 2c will stop her more direct approaches using 3d , air dash etc, assuming a pumpkin isn't being winded as well. 6b is for when she is descending and will fall right in your face, again, watching the pumpkin. Ignis j.xd control various spaces, and are more difficult for rachel to dismiss it is without being punished. Her 4d also stops rachel from getting past her, forming a temporary wall vs her and her projectiles unless rachel attacks with 6 or jb. Generally, the last two tools will be used before and after val lanto, respectively.

Offense

Your Offense:

Her Offense:

Defense

Your Defense:

Her Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets

Match Summary

If both players are good this match is rather even. They both have the tools necessary to deal with each other.

Edited November 13, 2013 by TD

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, I know this matchup hasn't changed much, but I couldn't deal with it in extend and I cant do it in CP. The second the bitch gets out one rod I've lost. She has every tool available under the sun to bait everything you have, and once you're in the corner, you stay there -_- 214B doesn't work, 214C is too slow, 214A even if it hits doesn't give you enough time before she winds to you and starts up her bullshit

[Boodendorf]

Against Rachel, though I haven't fought the best rachels, I prefer to stay on the other side of the screen. From that far, only the pumpkin is a threat. Your long range tools are 214A, 214C, 22B/C. After a 214A you should use j.8/6/2D since they usually attempt to go above Ignis to throw their seed(lobelia?) projectile. After a 214C use 22B/C to lock her in blockstun or to ruin her attempt at hitting Ignis out of it. Mix all of that stuff up and manage your Ignis meter well. Most of the seeds thrown can be intercepted and blocked by Ignis' moves, meaning they won't fall where they're supposed to. Use 214C and j.8/6/2D to do this.

Mid range you'll want to poke her with 5B/2B to keep her at a range where most of her moves aren't effective. 5B 6D, 214A if she's a bit too far, 2C/6B(works well since it's faster) as your anti air if she tries to come in with forward jump+wind. Just make sure she doesn't get a pumpkin out. Once you get a hit try to end it in 236C 214A to put her back fullscreen.

Close range is the hardest part of the matchup. Either you'll be pressuring her and you'll have to watch out for her electric chair attack. Since it's a move with a guard point you can cancel into 236A to avoid it if you're on the ground.

If she's pressuring you, try to IB most of the stuff to get meter and use your counter assault to get the hell outta here. You'll need solid defense and lots of patience, don't try anything risky and watch out for those throws.

That's all I can say, I don't have enough mu exp against her.

[NecroTheReaper]

Generally I try and keep to long ranges, but I guess I've only ever played rediculous Rachel players like bloodbro4life and this guy yesterday. Yesterday, every time I tried 22C after a full screen 214C, she'd always wind straight into my face and grab me. Same with 214B so nothing was safe Dx sometimes I can block her mixup all day long, other times I cant, but I feel even if I force her to use all her wind for mixup, she just has to throw out one george and use her lightning rods once to get it all back. Are there any points in her pressure that can be mashed or disrespected in any way? I'm not proficient with IBing, so that may be my issue.

[gli]

Use Ignis to cover you. Even with pumpkin out you are relatively safe. She really can't do much if you have doll out (imagine Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys). From full screen you should threaten with Val Lyra to catch her setting up or shooting.

[Boodendorf]

Yesterday, everytime I tried 22C after a full screen 214C, she'd always wind straight into my face and grab me.

You found a pattern, to counter it you could have used 22A or 22B rather than 22C and hit her where she was supposed to land after going above ignis and straight to you. Hit her enough times with this and the player won't try anymore since he knows you'll just catch him. Unless he's dumb or desperate lol.

Use Ignis to cover you. Even with pumpkin out you are relatively safe. She really can't do much if you have doll out (imagine Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys). From full screen you should threaten with Val Lyra to catch her setting up or shooting.

Does Ignis protect you from the pumpkin? I didn't try.

[gli]

@NecroTheReaper: I think I was the Rachel you played if it was 5+ games or something.

Ignis eats projectiles. Pumpkin is a projectile. It's only dangerous when she has wind though so just keep an eye on her wind gauge.

Lich showed me that Relius can dominate this match if you have very strong spacing and awareness of your Ignis moves.

Edited October 31, 2013 by glirandly

[NecroTheReaper]

I think it was you as well... teach me more miss sadist xD you're psn was different but I recognize the first three letters. But you're not the only Rachel I couldn't beat. I've only beaten one Rachel while playing extend, so maybe most rachel players are really good

[TD]

Fun fact, ignis beats all of Rachel's zoning tools and some of her more important normals. Plows through everything in her way and one-shots George. That means the horizontal space rachel controls so well is in jeopardy everytime she attempts to approach by this mean. Therefore she may try to take to the air. If she does this, she loses the advantage of gaining wind. However if she has enough she can effectively start an offense while avoiding the 214 trio.

Relius has much less tools to deal with airborne foes and they are situational. 2c will stop her more direct approaches using 3d , air dash etc, assuming a pumpkin isn't being winded as well. 6b is for when she is descending and will fall right in your face, again, watching the pumpkin. Ignis j.xd control various spaces, and are more difficult for rachel to dismiss it is without being punished. Her 4d also stops rachel from getting past her, forming a temporary wall vs her and her projectiles unless rachel attacks with 6 or jb. Generally, the last two tools will be used before and after val lanto, respectively.

Will add more at another time. If both players are good this match is rather even. They both have the tools necessary to deal with each other.

[NecroTheReaper]

Is there any way to punish a winded tech out of 214C oki? I kept falling for Errol doing that so mamy times, but I didn't know exactly what I could do to stop it.

Also, interesting fact. IAD j.5A seems to beat her AA if you'd hit her under normal circumstances (in other words, dont IAD over her. Whether or not this is normal behavior, idk lol).

Edited March 8, 2014 by NecroTheReaper

[Iron Savior]

I don't know what to do here, i can't poke because of her 4d, i can't jump because of her 6a, a Rachel once dashed trough my Tus with wind so  i´m afraid to throw it out, her cat chair stuffs a lot of my moves, but then again i hardly use Lugia so that may have contributed to my loss

[NecroTheReaper]

First off, don't IAD in this MU, at least not in neutral. All of her tools can blow up IADing. Now, a delayed air dash into 5A CAN beat her 6A, but it has to be a really low to the ground air dash. Anyway, she can't deal easily with superjump height, and at this height, we have a tool that's getting buffed in the patch. j.214B, use it. It prevents her from just running up and 6Aing you in the air at every turn, plus, its +19 at least on block (I think). So far, I've played a varied amount of Rachel's, and 7/10, j.214B beats her 6A. Other times, she can 6A early enough to slap ignis or j.214B will just wiff since its hitbox isn't very wide.

214C oki doesn't work 100% on her, but you have other options. Plus, you can baitit even using 214C oki. Just backdash and mash 2A if you feel it coming. Also, she's prone to grabs (depending on bow well they react) since her 2C doesn't beat grabs.

Lugia can be used in this MU almost as a guessing game with her. Typically, unless they're zoning or playing keepaway, most Rachel's rely on winded dash to get in on Relius from what I've seen. If you think shes gonna call out 22C from full screen distance with winded dash, 22B. If she does decide to wind air dash, 22A since its fast as hell. Also, they mey wind past her, but ignis is still your best tool in this MU. 214C pretty much is a train ride for you to move as you please on the ground. It won't necessarily hit her, but using 214A and 214B after can catch her doing stuff. If they like to slap ignis (which a lot of players do, even excluding rachel), depending on the situation, 2D or 236236D in their face. 2D keeps her safe, and if they try and mash her out, 22C can convert to a knockdown. 4D also needs to be used. I will admit, I don't use this move enough, but in this MU it shines.

[Myoro]

I generally give Rachel the floor on this match-up, she's like the one character we have all the tools to beat while playing defensively. Put your wife to work cutting up frogs, bats, pumpkins, and unlucky vampires and keep in mind that 2C is actually really amazing here.