[CP] Relius Clover vs Tsubaki Yayoi

[TD]

Discuss the Tsubaki matchup here.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her Tools

In The Air: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Offense

Your Offense:

Her Offense:

Strings have changed in terms of what is airtight and what is not, but there's an opening after 5BB if she goes for either a low or a high (2B or 6A). If she just goes for 5C there's no gap though.

Her overhead is actually one of the slowest in the game. It can come in at three places (excluding 5A/2A):

After 5B

After 5BB

After 2B

2B is only -1, so Tsubaki may want to reset pressure after it with a jab or throw. Be mindful.

Barrier is your friend; All her normals have crap range and pushing her back will rapidly limit her options.

-Airk

Options after her 5b/2b blockstrings.

5B > 5BB - No gap even on IB. Do nothing.

5B > 6B (Low) - 5 frames, can backdash or reversal, but must IB to jab.

5B > 6A (High) - 10 frames. Whatever you want, but if you didn't IB the 5B and she picks 6B instead, you'll get CH into quite a lot of damage, so learn to tell the difference.

5B > 2B - No gap except on IB, and then it's only 1 frame. Backdash or reversal only.

5BB > 6B - Like 8 frames game. Jabbable.

5BB > 6A - Like 13 frames, do whatever the hell you want. (Note: Don't just mash jab after 5BB though, she can frame trap with 5C after 5BB, and 5C CH is a big starter)

5BB > 2B - 1 frame gap, I think, can backdash.

2B > 6A - 8ish frames, can jab out the overhead here.

2B > 2BB - Airtight even on IB, I believe. Do nothing.

After 2BB/6A/6B, you're basically out of mixup territory and you only need to watch for charge cancels.

So basically it comes down to "If you can recognize the overhead, jab, but don't just mash jab, because there are lots of ugly ways for her to punish that." It's mostly safe to mash backdash, but twirl is often not the best option due to followups and the fact that most of her normals will finish before twirl does anyway.

-Airk

Defense

Your Defense:

Her Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets

Match Summary

Edited November 13, 2013 by TD

[Boodendorf]

So uh, what the bloody hell am I supposed to do once she hit me on block and starts her pressure that I can't seem to be able to block for the life of me? I've never managed to win against a tsubaki with Relius :u. Looking for tips.

[NecroTheReaper]

If her strings were unchanged from Extend, then almost all of them have a gap. Her overhead is pretty good though, and I understand he issue with blocking xD. Also, if her strings were unchanged, I know I use Ley WAAAAAY more than I should, but in matches where they're forced to special cancel a move to make it safe, just ley through it. However, this has to be done on a move that cant wiff follow up, like 6A or 6BB. I do this for a lot of characters that rely on a special cancelled move to make it safe like Hakumen 5C or Kagura's drive

[Airk]

If her strings were unchanged from Extend, then almost all of them have a gap. Her overhead is pretty good though, and I understand he issue with blocking xD. Also, if her strings were unchanged, I know I use Ley WAAAAAY more than I should, but in matches where they're forced to special cancel a move to make it safe, just ley through it. However, this has to be done on a move that cant wiff follow up, like 6A or 6BB. I do this for a lot of characters that rely on a special cancelled move to make it safe like Hakumen 5C or Kagura's drive

Strings have changed in terms of what is airtight and what is not, but there's an opening after 5BB if she goes for either a low or a high (2B or 6A). If she just goes for 5C there's no gap though.

Her overhead is actually one of the slowest in the game. It can come in at three places (excluding 5A/2A):

After 5B

After 5BB

After 2B

2B is only -1, so Tsubaki may want to reset pressure after it with a jab or throw. Be mindful.

Barrier is your friend; All her normals have crap range and pushing her back will rapidly limit her options.

[Boodendorf]

Thanks for the infos, what should I use in the gaps? 2A? 5B?

How fast is her low that looks like her overhead? Is it possible to hit her out of the low/oh's startup?

Does her low comes out at the same places as her overhead?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Boodendorf

[NecroTheReaper]

Her 5B>6B(low) is gapless unless you IB, then there's a 2 frame gap which you could vinum through, but ita a tough timing. 5BB>6B has a 2 frame gap, I believe 5 on IB, so its a lot easier to get out of. Almost anything into 6A (overhead) has a gap since it has a 26 frame startup. If you don't trust it, backdash if you see it and punish from there, since it doesnt have magic wiff power cancel.

[Airk]

Thanks for the infos, what should I use in the gaps? 2A? 5B?

No, you'll have to do something fast for those. When I say "opening" I mean like, 1-2 frames kind of thing. The easiest option is to backdash as Necro mentioned. That said, a lot of the other info in Necro's post doesn't seem to be correct. 5B > 6B is absolutely not gapless without IB - 5B is only 16 frames of blockstun, and 6B is 21 frames of startup. There's a 5 frame gap there even without IB (Though that's still too small for Relius to 5A/2A, either of those will work if you IB it.). Her overhead is a whopping 26 frames of startup, so you can ALWAYS jab her out of that.

Does her low comes out at the same places as her overhead?

It actually can come out in more places, but the one place you DON'T have to worry about it is after 2B. (OTOH, she can still do 2BB after 2B, so don't just autopilot standing block after 2B).

How fast is her low that looks like her overhead? Is it possible to hit her out of the low/oh's startup?

Uh. Lemme do a chart.

5B > 5BB - No gap even on IB. Do nothing.

5B > 6B (Low) - 5 frames, can backdash or reversal, but must IB to jab.

5B > 6A (High) - 10 frames. Whatever you want, but if you didn't IB the 5B and she picks 6B instead, you'll get CH into quite a lot of damage, so learn to tell the difference.

5B > 2B - No gap except on IB, and then it's only 1 frame. Backdash or reversal only.

5BB > 6B - Like 8 frames game. Jabbable.

5BB > 6A - Like 13 frames, do whatever the hell you want. (Note: Don't just mash jab after 5BB though, she can frame trap with 5C after 5BB, and 5C CH is a big starter)

5BB > 2B - 1 frame gap, I think, can backdash.

2B > 6A - 8ish frames, can jab out the overhead here.

2B > 2BB - Airtight even on IB, I believe. Do nothing.

After 2BB/6A/6B, you're basically out of mixup territory and you only need to watch for charge cancels.

So basically it comes down to "If you can recognize the overhead, jab, but don't just mash jab, because there are lots of ugly ways for her to punish that." It's mostly safe to mash backdash, but twirl is often not the best option due to followups and the fact that most of her normals will finish before twirl does anyway.