Proration and Damage Scaling, Help with Composing Combos

[BenignPacifist]

I just got back into Blazblue after not playing for a super long time and I wanted to start getting deeper into the mechanics of the game I once adored so much. So I'm trying to learn how combo scaling and damage works so that I can compose my own combos, get a grasp of what combos are best in certain situations and what to avoid getting hit by when fighting others. I think there'd be many pluses to learning how this works for me.

I was reading up on damage scaling in the wiki and I'm just not understanding it. I'm testing out the formula's with Mu-12 and I'm just not getting the numbers right.

So this formula is apparently: Damage = (Base Damage of the attack) * (Character Combo Rate) * (P1 of the first hit) * (P2 of all the preceeding hits in a combo) * (any special prorations)

So I try this with something simple with mu: 5A>5B. The total damage is 584.

I try to plug in the numbers as I think they are:

Damage = (300 [the damage of 5A])*( According to the wiki: 80%)*(.8*300) = a bigass, incorrect number

Clearly wrong, but I dont know what exactly I'm doing wrong. I'm left asking myself a bunch of questions

-Is (Base Damage of the attack) the base damage of the first attack or the whole combo?

-Are P1 and P2 percentages that are flatly added into the equation, or are P1 and P2 percentages of their corresponding moves?

-I'm assuming P1 and P2 are percentages. The formula doesnt make it totally clear to me.

-With that assumption that they are percentages, is P1 the percentage of damage that the second hit of the combo retains?

-Then after that, is it the P2 of the first attack used in the combo that gets applied to every move after that, or is it the P2 of every individual move used in the rest of the combo?

-Say I used more than 2 hits. Surely you wouldn't multiply every P2 addition into the equation right? Shouldn't we be adding values?

I messed around with it numerous times and got closer, but I could never get the exact number. Then it lead me to ask:

- How do people get frame data, exactly? How do I know for sure that the wiki is absolute?

- In addition, how do people find these proration rates? And this Character combo modifier as well?

- Learning about hitstun decay would be glorious in helping me construct combos, but I seemingly need to know about the damage scaling first to be able to get those percentages that section of the wiki speaks of. Then, even if I knew, I dont know how those frame listed are applied to whatever they're applied to.

- The frame data listed for EX list frame advantage on block only. Shouldn't on hit be listed somewhere as well or is there a set rule for it that I didnt see?

More than likely, I know that I'm wrong and I'm not badmouthing the wiki, but I'd just like to be able to know for sure how to obtain these values and I just feel there's not enough information for people like me, fresh into this stuff, to help us get a grasp of these mechanics.

Any help'd be appreciated.

[Kikirin]

Caveat: I'm currently not near the game to confirm the numbers, and these are based on how Extend does damage calculations. But I imagine the damage calculation aspect of BBCP should be roughly the same.

Based on what I understand of it, the formula calculates the damage a particular hit will do and is generally used for the second hit of the combo onwards. Using your example for Mu, the calculation for the combo will be:

First Hit (5a): just use the base damage here since there are no preceding hits, i.e. 300.

Second Hit (5b): use the formula with character combo rate, 1st attack's p1, and 1st attack's p2 applied. So 530 * 0.80 * 1 * 0.77 = 326

Total Combo = 300 + 326 = 626

If there were a third hit, you'd use the formula with character combo rate, 1st attack's p1, 1st attack's p2, and 2nd attack's p2 applied.

It looks like the CP wiki doesn't have an example up yet, but you can check out a CSE example here: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_(BBCSE)

Addressing your individual questions in-line:

-Is (Base Damage of the attack) the base damage of the first attack or the whole combo?

This is the damage the particular attack would do when it connects to the opponent as a "first hit".

-Are P1 and P2 percentages that are flatly added into the equation, or are P1 and P2 percentages of their corresponding moves?

I'm not sure if I understand the question fully, but P1 and P2 are set percentage values (0-100) for use in the damage equation and each move has a fixed P1 and P2. For damage calculation purposes, you can think of them as being independent of the attack's base damage. (I imagine the developers do have general design guidelines for how the prorations relate to base damage though.)

-I'm assuming P1 and P2 are percentages. The formula doesnt make it totally clear to me.

Correct, they are percentages.

-With that assumption that they are percentages, is P1 the percentage of damage that the second hit of the combo retains?

You can think of it that way, though P1 applies to the rest of the combo rather than just the second hit. There is only one P1 applied, so you can think of it as an "additional special modifier" that is based on the first hit used for the combo.

-Then after that, is it the P2 of the first attack used in the combo that gets applied to every move after that, or is it the P2 of every individual move used in the rest of the combo?

Both - the P2s of all hits in the combo so far are applied in the damage calculation for all upcoming moves. The thing to keep in mind is that the P2 of the current attack is not used in its damage calculation.

-Say I used more than 2 hits. Surely you wouldn't multiply every P2 addition into the equation right? Shouldn't we be adding values?

You actually would - each additional P2 is multiplied into the preceding ones.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Kikirin

[Tong]

Ragna's Hell's Fang BnB example:

Ragna combo rate = 70%

Combo 5B> 5C> 214A> 214D does 2020dmg. This is the way the game calculates (sorta):

• 5B, 660dmg. (Variables and proration only counts towards the next move.) Total dmg: 660dmg
  
  
  • 5C, 800dmg*(P1 - 100, P2 - 89, CR-70) from 5B. Total dmg: 498dmg
    
    
    • 214A, 730dmg*(P1 - 100, P2- 89, CR- 70) from 5B *(P2-92) from 5C. Total dmg: 418dmg
      

    [*]214D, 950dmg*(P1 - 100, P2- 89, CR- 70) from 5B *(P2-92) from 5C *(P2-82) from 214A. Total dmg: 446dmg

    [*]

    Now, sum them all and you get: 2022dmg

    There's a little difference from the in-game value because it probably rounds stuff.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Tong

[BenignPacifist]

Alright I think I get it now. Seeing examples really helps me alot. I wasnt sure how to apply the equation.

So the equation is applied to every move used in a combo and the sums of each are added up for the total. (I thought that the one equation was used to sum up the whole total damage)

P1 is the P1 value of the first move used in the combo and it is constant in every other use of the equation in the same combo.

P2 is the P2 value of every single preceding move used in the combo. (I had no idea it included the very first move as well and I had no idea it excluded the value of the current.)

Alright cool. Let me try it out.

Mu: 5A>5B>5C>3C>SoD

Damage = 5A: 300

5B: (530 * .8 * .8 * .84) = 284.928

5C: (720 * .8 * .8 * .84 * .91) = 352.236

3C: (660 * .8 * .8 * .84 * .91 * .94) = 303.509

SOD: (920 * .8 * .8 * .84 * .91 * .94 * .88) = 372.305

Total damage = 1612.978

The in game is 1611. I'm not too sure how the system rounds off, but close enough I guess.

And in the case that there are (special prorations), they're listen in notes in the frame data right? And is repeat proration always 30% or is that listed as well?

other than that, GOT IT. I GET IT. WOO. THANKS.

So essentially, to maximize damage, string together all the moves with the best/highest P's.

Now how about hitstun decay? I understand the description in the wiki saying that when the percentages drop a certain point (27% on the ground and 32% in the air), hitstun decays.

So to find out what that percentage is, do you simply multiply all of the P1's and P2's and Char Combo rate in the combo?

So say for example, that combo I just stated would have a proration of:

.8 * .8 * .84 * .91 * .94 * .88 = 40%

And if that is right, that means that the combo is not affected at all by hitstun (so far), right?

If I'm right, then say if I were to extend the combo further. Then, according to the chart, the deterioration would start knocking off frames from the hitstun (-2, -3, -4, so on and so forth.). Right?

And one more clarification about hitstun, moreso about hitstop. I found the section in the wiki about hitstun and I had no idea that hitstun in the game was generalized. That makes the math alot easier.

Here are my questions

- I understand what hitstop is, but both the player and the opponent are affected by it and sometimes the amounts of hitstop are different. Are the values listed for normal hitstop for both the attacker and the opponent? If not, where do you find out how much hitstop the attacker goes through.

- Do you add hitstop to hitstun/untech time?

If I figure this out, I can be more away of tech times and such.

[Mcgreag]

SMP (Same Move Proration) only effects combo time, not damage in this version on the game. In earlier games it effected damage.

Same for hitstun decay, it used to be based on the Proration of the combo but it's now just based on time.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_%28BBCP%29#Hitstun_Decay

Hitstop is in general same for both players and has in that case no effect at all on if something can combo or not. It's pause to make the combat look cooler (and make hit confirming easier). In some cases as you say it can be different, in those cases the difference have to be added/removed from the hitstun.

If you are using earlier versions like CS2 or Extend then the SMP for the move is listed in its framedata. It can be anything from 10% to 80%. A special note about SMP is that for most cases it works like and extra P2 but the exception being that it effects the damage of the SMP attack as well and just following attacks.

Bonus Proration is also a bit special in that it replaces the P2 for that move the first time the move is used.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Mcgreag