[CP] Rachel vs. Kokonoe

[gli]

No question... Kokonoe easily wins this match-up. What can you do against a character that has nearly the same tools as you + more? That ft 10 with Tsujikawa x N-O should speak for itself

[Errol]

whoa really? for real? l didnt want to say 7-3. l didnt want to believe it...

So tsuji won 77% of the games. It's week two kokonoe and n-o had already played over a hundred matches against kokonoe and thought a lot about the matchup. He had a set with go1, the kokonoe player he lost to in the online gods sometime back and sounded like he must've beaten him pretty badly in that... He really prepared for it and it didn't work? If it were someone else I could chalk it up to player skill, but with N-O?

at this point, I would put Rachel in the category of chars that can't handle Kokonoe. Apparently some other characters can do reasonably against her, or so people say. I haven't watched enough of Tsujikawa's stuff... is there anyone that has done reasonably against him? but at any rate, i can't remember n-o ever losing to anyone really..

[TD]

you know what, she studied everyone since ct, feigned a "no l dont fight l have to use tager" role, and she just comes out of the fucking lab with uzi's and shit blasting anyone in the way. every character bar tager is like "W.T.F."

ironic because in cs rachel distinctly said kokonoe didnt have what it takes to tango with the Gods. and look at her. started at the bottom now she here

[mAc Chaos]

rachel's entire role in the story is to say things so they can be proven wrong lol

[Fujiwara]

you know what, she studied everyone since ct, feigned a "no l dont fight l have to use tager" role, and she just comes out of the fucking lab with uzi's and shit blasting anyone in the way. every character bar tager is like "W.T.F."

ironic because in cs rachel distinctly said kokonoe didnt have what it takes to tango with the Gods. and look at her. started at the bottom now she here

This is the best I've heard said about Kokonoe yet

[sparkaura]

2.5-7.5

4-6 being the worst a matchup can be is something people need to get over. N-O stomps top players in matchups that are bad for Rachel. He usually sits at the top of the arcade ranking..

I dont want to believe this, but its completely reasonably. Kokonoe is Rachel 2.0, Im just going to have to smack my pad against other kokonoe players to screw up their BS lol.

[samthegreat]

What setup is he using?

blabla > 236B > 5C > 5D > 236D > Black Hole.

[Tari]

blabla > 236B > 5C > 5D > 236D > Black Hole.

How does that beat wind tech? It doesn't even force you to emergency tech, so you can just lie on the ground forever before wind teching if you felt like it? Hell, I'm pretty sure you can even wind roll out of it, if you want to.

I'm assuming I'm missing some information here?

Edit: In fact, against the setup you posted (and any non-lightning setup), if you want to be really silly, you can just lie on the ground and mash 6D until you automatically get up, and then just run off into the distance. Looks pretty silly. Eats up pretty much 4 wind stock, though, since you're shoving a grounded body around, hah.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Tari

[Rhapsody]

Can't test it right now, but I was curious. On the one Black Hole setup where she forces you to block 1 or 2 hits of something, is it possible to Counter Assault the blocked move and wind yourself out of the super's range while you're still in an invul state?

[Tari]

Can't test it right now, but I was curious. On the one Black Hole setup where she forces you to block 1 or 2 hits of something, is it possible to Counter Assault the blocked move and wind yourself out of the super's range while you're still in an invul state?

Not sure which setup you're talking about, but CA invuln definitely doesn't last long enough to get you out of black hole. You barely move when you're winding yourself during CA. This is assuming the blackhole is spawning as you're starting your CA of course. Don't know about a setup that makes it spawn later.

[Rhapsody]

Not sure which setup you're talking about, but CA invuln definitely doesn't last long enough to get you out of black hole. You barely move when you're winding yourself during CA. This is assuming the blackhole is spawning as you're starting your CA of course. Don't know about a setup that makes it spawn later.

Just tested it on the old ice RC one, and you're right, it doesn't work. Black Hole hitbox is just too big. :/

CA with lotus and wind gets you out, but that's pretty situational.

[Loli Bacon]

No one's posted in here for a while, and although I main Kokonoe, I love Rachel to bits. So I won't post this in the matchup thread on the Koko forums, but Kokonoe has a way to beat Rachel's wind tech for unblockable. It's guaranteed against Rachel, unfortunately. =/ I think Rachel's best option against a player who knows the setup is to let themselves get hit by the 22B.

[TD]

everyone should have two bursts except kokonoe.

[Tari]

No one's posted in here for a while, and although I main Kokonoe, I love Rachel to bits. So I won't post this in the matchup thread on the Koko forums, but Kokonoe has a way to beat Rachel's wind tech for unblockable. It's guaranteed against Rachel, unfortunately. =/ I think Rachel's best option against a player who knows the setup is to let themselves get hit by the 22B.

Can you tell me what it is? :P

I feel the need to test it for an hour or so to make sure nothing works. :|

edit: after some testing, it appears to not be a guaranteed setup on Rachel, just another really annoying oki option Kokonoe can choose to use. Waking up against Kokonoe in the corner is a guessing game that's probably 2/3 in Kokonoe's favour if she decides to try for a blackhole setup. Pretty annoying.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Tari

[Loli Bacon]

Can you tell me what it is? :P

I feel the need to test it for an hour or so to make sure nothing works. :|

edit: after some testing, it appears to not be a guaranteed setup on Rachel, just another really annoying oki option Kokonoe can choose to use. Waking up against Kokonoe in the corner is a guessing game that's probably 2/3 in Kokonoe's favour if she decides to try for a blackhole setup. Pretty annoying.

I still want that video of the super wind tech. Sounds hilarious.

[Soniti]

So Bananaken tested Rachel's escape options out of Kokonoe infinite blockstring.

She has 2 escape methods: IB the fireball while standing up then cat chair, or pick a spot and counter assault.

Doesn't sound ideal but at least it's something.

[Soniti]

I've been in the lab a bit testing superball punishes lately. Unfotunately, in order to get a real punish you need to IB it*

 

Oki ender Kokonoe corner superball punishes

 

No resources:

IB dash throw(CH) 5b 6a 236a 6a 4b 5cc (214b) 3c

2654 damage

Make sure not to throw too early or the fireball will clip you at the end. I just dash up slightly more than necessary to help my timing.

 

50 meter:

IB 5c(FC) 2c RC dash 5b 6a 236a 5b 6a 4b 5cc (214b) 3c

3599 damage

 

Overdrive:

IB 5c(FC) dash OD 5b 6a 236a 5b 6a 4b 5cc (214b) 3c

3095 damage

Activate OD right as the fireball is about to hit you and you will dodge it

 

100 meter and some wind:

IB 5c(FC) 2c RC dash 5b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b 6a 236a 5b 6a 4b dash 6a BBL

5330 damage, (6194 if you end with 4b OD dash 6a BBL)

 

 

I have some max damage routes using resources (so far my max is 7619 damage with low life OD and 100%), but I'm still trying to optimize them. I'll post them as I figure them out:

 

Max damage Kokonoe super ball punishes

 

Short overdrive + 50%:

IB 5c(FC) dash OD 5b 6a 236a 5b 6a 4b 6a BBL 6c8d 8d

4959 damage

Kill combo only, air ender. You don't need to start with any wind at all.

 

I have three different combos for low life + OD +100%. Note that 5cc -> 5b j.c doesn't work on Kokonoe, and these are fatal combo alternate routes. They do similar damage so take your pick:

 

Max duration OD + 100%:

IB 5c(FC) dash OD 5b 6a 236a 5b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b 6a 4b dash 6a BBL 236a 236a 8d BBL

7515 damage

The second 236a between BBLs needs to whiff or hit on the same frame as BBL.

 

Max duration OD + 100%:

IB 5c(FC) dash OD 5b j.b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b j.c j.236a delay 3d 5b 6a 236a 6a 4b dash 6a BBL 236a 236a 8d BBL

7433 damage

​The second 236a between BBLs needs to whiff. You need to start with at least a portion of 1 wind or wind regen needs to be off cooldown at the start of the combo.

 

Max duration OD + 100%

 

IB 5c(FC) dash OD 5b 6a delay 5b j.c j.236a 3d 5b j.c j.236a 3d 5b 6a delay 236a 5b 6a 4b dash 6a BBL 236a 236a 8d BBL

7619 damage

The second 236a between BBLs needs to whiff

 

As always, OD BBL is super picky and your dmg will vary depending on the spacing of both you and your poles, as well as the height of your opponent when it hits.

 

* well actually you can do 5b+d 3c(2-3 hits) BBL trade 5b 6a 236a 6a 4b 5cc, but it isn't very stable

[gamester]

Rin-Hime did this video that caught my attention and I've only just got round to posting it here (sorry). It's on Nico but hopefully some might find it useful.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23902171

[Amegashita]

Question, what are people's opinion on this matchup now?  To me if feels like it's definitely in Rachel's favor for the most part but maybe that's just the online environment and what not.