[CP] Tager vs Kokonoe: Teach me to science

[A.X.I.S.]

Gravitons are not broke.

[Brice]

unblockable isn't unblockable on Tager

delay tech into fully charged Bsledge into another fully charged Bsledge will CH her and makes you escape for free.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Yeah, my experience is that actually this MU isn't too bad for Tager. One of those odd MUs where Tager just has the right tools to circumvent stuff that other characters can't.

[TagerTime]

unblockable isn't unblockable on Tager

delay tech into fully charged Bsledge into another fully charged Bsledge will CH her and makes you escape for free.

Also if she does fireball super on her wakeup Tager can also punish it for free with A-buster or Bsledge. Here is a couple cool quick little combos for if you have her down in the corner and she does fireball super on her wakeup.

requires 72 heat corner no mag

As soon as she techs and does the super:

(during superflash) CH Bsledge>6C>Asledge>Hammer>5A>4D>5C>6B>jC>jD>5C>6A>2C>AC>upSpark>OD>MTW>TB>GF 5957 dmg

corner no mag meterless:

(during superflash) CH Bsledge>6C>Asledge>Hammer>5A>4D>5C>6B>jC>jD>h.jC>jA>jB>jC>GP 3916 dmg

requires 93 heat

(during superflash) CH Bsledge>Astral

You dont have to worry about the fireball falling down on you because Asledge>Hammer lets you combo her through the fireball as it is falling back down. Thats the cool looking part lol!

There needs to be a video of this stat. Tager getting all the style points.

I can try to record these anti flamecage combos on my cellphone tomorrow even though i dont have recording equipment.

Edited November 12, 2013 by TagerTime

[Andarel]

There needs to be a video of this stat. Tager getting all the style points.

[TagerTime]

There needs to be a video of this stat. Tager getting all the style points.

Me and my brother practiced all this stuff last night and if i am remembering correctly Tager can also get past bothl versions of her beam super (not the fully charged one) without problem and its even possible to punish her from full screen away without using sparkbolt lol. i will try to make a quick video showing how to get past all her unblockable blackhole setups, fireball wakeup super and her Beam super.

Edit:

On second thought ill let someone else make a video cuz I don't have recording equipment and I'd have to make a crappy video with my cellphone lol

Edited November 11, 2013 by TagerTime

[mAc Chaos]

Putting fireball and black hole aside, there is still the rest of the character which has great normals and is basically like Rachel. How does Tager do?

[TagerTime]

Here is a quick clip i made of the anti super fireball combo. The combo probably can be made better though but it still looks cool. My brother gave me the initial idea when he created his own anti super fireball combo for platinum, by comboing kokonoe through the fireball with platinum's counter attack.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=imph1u&s=5#.Uo2LAT-p6aK

This video shows Tagers free B-sledge black hole escape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvUxGv07LYk&feature=youtu.be&t=4m4s

Edited November 21, 2013 by TagerTime

[Ctrlaltwtf]

3C>Asledge>5A>jA doesn't work on her.

[Osuna]

So does anyone have any advise that involves set ups a Kokonoe player would actually use on Tager?

[DeadliestxXx]

Instablock and punish the last hit of 3C. I think this can be special canceled so be careful of that

Cannon normal iirc is 5C and JC can be sledged through.

When you do a combo on her in the corner, I sometimes find that 6C>JC> j.D seems to whiff on her sometimes so I think 6C>A Sledge is the better choice.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Instablock and punish the last hit of 3C. I think this can be special canceled so be careful of that

Cannon normal iirc is 5C and JC can be sledged through.

When you do a combo on her in the corner, I sometimes find that 6C>JC> j.D seems to whiff on her sometimes so I think 6C>A Sledge is the better choice.

All you need to do is delay the jC after 6C a little bit. There are other characters that need this, too, so I recommend just doing it all the time.

[Maho]

IBing a 3C won't get you a guaranteed punish as it makes it -4, what you can punish with IB is 6B as it makes it -5, a 720 is guaranteed there. Her 3C isn't special cancelable on block, it's only drive cancelable which makes it -16 so that should not happen that much, she can jump cancel some of the recovery of the drive but you can punish before she gets airborne with up to 11f moves.

Against intant overhead jC, you can backdash it and it have a lot of recovery on whiff, you can punish it with 5C or 2C, less risky than using Sledge and you also get way more damage out of it.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Maho

[DeadliestxXx]

IBing a 3C won't get you a guaranteed punish as it makes it -4, what you can punish with IB is 6B as it makes it -5, a 720 is guaranteed there. Her 3C isn't special cancelable on block, it's only drive cancelable which makes it -16 so that should not happen that much, she can jump cancel some of the recovery of the drive but you can punish before she gets airborne with up to 11f moves.

Against intant overhead jC, you can backdash it and it have a lot of recovery on whiff, you can punish it with 5C or 2C, less risky than using Sledge and you also get way more damage out of it.

Thank you for clarifying. I understand the backdash of the instant overhead being punishable. I meant when people use it in a blockstring because the kokonoe player I play tends to use 5c in his blockstring. I also usually get a simple punish of 3c with 5a and just usually end it with gadget finger unless she's already magnetized.

I also find that super ball super on startup clashes with sledge and then I'm sure you cancel the clash with a 360 or a 720.

Edited February 12, 2014 by DeadliestxXx

[Yohosie]

The Punishes

3C can be punished with IB 720C Clean

3C can be punished with IB 360B if not canceled into A Bunker

3C can be punished with IB 360A if canceled into A bunker (do yourself a favor and just IB 720C and make it easier on yourself)

2B (2 hits) > 5C can be punished with IB A Sledge (doesn't counterhit)

2B (1 hit) > 5C can be punished with raw A Sledge (doesn't counterhit)

6B can be punished with raw 720C at all ranges

6B can be punished with raw 360B at mid - close ranges

6B can be punished with IB 360B at far ranges when magnetized

 

5C can be punished with IB 720C at all ranges

5C can be punished with raw 720C at close range

 

 

The 2nd hit of 3C isn't a low, so it's much easier to IB 720 than normal.

GF Oki How-To
5D beats Backdash and Teleport if delayed by ~2 frames. Loses to Mashing and jumpout 5A.

A sledge > 360B/720C beats both Super Ball and Backdash ("eh" punish for backdash). Loses to Teleport and mashing

B sledge beats Super Ball, and leads to a crazy good CH combo, but allows Kokonoe to spend 50 meter to be safe.

5C will beat backdash. Will "Lose" to Teleport, but put us at -5 so technically not punishable, we just get to eat pressure. Loses to mashing and jumpout j.5A.

5A will beat some timings of Backdash, Teleport, and Jumpouts.
360[A] beats Teleport. Loses to Backdash. Can beat Mashing if your reactions are on point.

720[C] beats Backdash, Mashing. Loses to Teleport

GF [charge for a few frames] Catches backdash and beats Teleport. Punish Teleport with 5A, GF whiff interacts super weirdly with what side Kokonoe ends up on

 

 

Delayed 5D and 5A are my usual oki options in the matchup, but I'll use all options (except maybe 360[A]). GF is OK in theory but in practice is hard to make effective. A sledge is surprisingly great once Kokonoe has 50 meter, especially if it's first round. I'm not as big a fan as B sledge, only because if you 5A sledge with 50 meter you can punish Super Ball with 720C or if they backdash you can do a decent 3k A Sledge > RC nonsense combo.

I haven't found any option selects.

 

Voltic Charge is really bad in this matchup. Kokonoe's ridiculous runspeed and 3C startup destroys it. Don't charge it for long, but it's OK in short bursts.

Kokonoe's j.5A is kind of ridiculous with our huge hitbox, and our anti-airs don't really deal with it that well. 2A is worse than usual, makes 2C the only anti-air I feel like I can use with any consistency.

[Maho]

For GF oki you can use the same OS as for Relius Led Ley, though it's a bit harder in 1.1 with the nerfed 5A routes that will need a faster confirm the be safe on block.

 

So you do 5A~5B~BC~3C, on hit/block you'll do the chain, if she TPs you'll CH grab him out of it, the timing takes a bit of practice as if you do it the fastest, the grab might be a few frames too soon and whiff,