[Xrd] Millia Gameplay Discussion

[heavymetalmixer]

You should still be able to cancel 6K into 236S to combo in the corner.

 

Being level 2 still has enough hitstun to combo in 236S?

[Teyah]

Yes, more than enough - it'll be the same as 2S or 2D into 236S though those have less pushback. If 6K is reduced to level 2 from 4 then I hope the push back is being reduced accordingly too.

Also, any word on if it will keep its +8 frame advantage on (crouching) hit? When 6K had a level down nerf before (Xrd level 4 > 3) in Slash, it kept the advantage on hit.

[currentlemon]

As expected Millia was nerfed, but not too much.  Even with these changes she would be fine and I would still consider her strong.

 

Edit: I don't really mind 6K being nerfed.  We still have TK Bad Moon, unless there are more changes on the way.

[Altimit01]

I think this might also be relevant?

 

- Added Sin, Elphelt and Leo.

- Various adjustments to all characters.

- the input buffer for button presses, forward dash etc. has been increased.

- Some commands for specials and supers are now easier to input.

- If you Blitz Shield a projectile and the opponent is nearby, they get repelled.

- The start-up of purple Roman Cancel is reduced.

- When the opponent uses Roman Cancel during a blue Psyche Burst's start-up, a red Roman Cancel is now performed.

- Changed the behavior of neutral ukemi at low altitude.

[Stellarcircle5]

I mean, Millia's high/low connects before the disc does...right?

*begins praying*

[jimmy]

I mean, Millia's high/low connects before the disc does...right?

*begins praying*

ye if you do it right it connects before disc, no need for feeble prayers

the real travesty is the erasure of okizeme off my hard-earned dead angles

like c'mon, I worked hard for that knockdown

[Stellarcircle5]

ye if you do it right it connects before disc, no need for feeble prayers

the real travesty is the erasure of okizeme off my hard-earned dead angles

like c'mon, I worked hard for that knockdown

Our character reeks of scum :V

[Teyah]

If you do your 50/50 before the disc hits, then the enemy has a 50/50 chance to blitz you. So occasionally you'd do something like backdash > 6K/2D to let the disc hit first so the enemy would BS the disc and you could still mixup.

Post-patch it seems likely that you won't be able to do this, since you'll probably put yourself close enough to be in Rejected state if they BS the disc. It'll become very low risk to just attempt a late BS since you can't bait it anymore. So then it circles back to being in both parties' best interest to attempt a meaty high/low and reversal BS, turning the situation closer to a 50/50 against Millia if the enemy guesses right.

[Rhiya]

I'd be curious how this affects secret garden setups more than anything else. I'm assuming the game counts it as a projectile.

I wish we had data on how large the pushback actually -is-, though. Would be really helpful.

[jimmy]

If you do your 50/50 before the disc hits, then the enemy has a 50/50 chance to blitz you. So occasionally you'd do something like backdash > 6K/2D to let the disc hit first so the enemy would BS the disc and you could still mixup.

Post-patch it seems likely that you won't be able to do this, since you'll probably put yourself close enough to be in Rejected state if they BS the disc. It'll become very low risk to just attempt a late BS since you can't bait it anymore. So then it circles back to being in both parties' best interest to attempt a meaty high/low and reversal BS, turning the situation closer to a 50/50 against Millia if the enemy guesses right.

YRC oki I guess would also be a counter to BS, as it can mess with the BS input timing?

and yeah I can see this seriously affecting secret garden oki

[Dirty Magic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qKy9iK_jDc

[Altimit01]

Additional info from twitter. Main source is @consomme0914 with translations by @hc0519

 

@hc0519

1.1 Millia (1/3):

- fS, init proration 90

- 2HS, RISC decrease 6->12

- 6P, longer stagger time on counter

- 6HS, bounce on counter

 

@hc0519

1.1 Millia (2/3):

- 236S, init proration 90

- Ironsaber, recovery 8->10, init.proration 90->80

- garden, easier input timing, proration 90

 

@hc0519  ·  1h 1 hour ago

1.1 Millia (3/3):

- Rose, invul only during flash

- Jump, bigger hurtbox

- Air hurtbox/block motion in general bigger

 

 

JP links: 1 2 3

[currentlemon]

- Jump, bigger hurtbox

- Air hurtbox/block motion in general bigger

 

Can anyone tell me what this means?  I'm gussing that this is a nerf to Millia's Air-to-Ground game.

[orphanfight317]

Hey guys, here are the Millia changes:

http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf

6K - Attack level is reduced from 4 to 2.

Dead Angle Attack - the motion is changed, now blows the opponent sideways on hit.

Digitalis (214K > HS) - the untech time on counter-hit is increased; the recovery is increased from 23 to 26 frames; P1 changed from 80 to 75.

Winger (2141236HS) - the opponent now rolls along the ground rather than getting wall-bounced on hit; the forced proration on hit is now removed, P1 is now 90, and the last hit reduces the R.I.S.C. Level by 15.

 

So from looking at this (correct me if I'm wrong)

-6K will no longer reliably give a decent combo midscreen without meter or disc. 6K used to be able to link into 5k/fS into a combo midscreen but now appears to only link into 5k midscreen on crouching counter-hit. In the corner this doesn't change much since you can still cancel it into 236S and get a combo.

-Dead angle change is fair, knockdown into disc setup was stupid to begin with.

-Digitails seems like it has a higher risk higher reward, it's less safe on block but as a frame trap it has better rewards.

-Winger: I'd have to see it in action first.

[Ronove]

No more stagger for 6P is a real shame honestly.

 

I'm curious about CH 6HS bouncing the opponent, I wonder if it will allow Millia to do things like roll/dash>5K/5S/2HS

[Teyah]

So from looking at this (correct me if I'm wrong)

-6K will no longer reliably give a decent combo midscreen without meter or disc. 6K used to be able to link into 5k/fS into a combo midscreen but now appears to only link into 5k midscreen on crouching counter-hit.

Was it confirmed that 6K won't link to far S anymore or is this just your assumption from reading the level down change? In XX/, 6K went down a level but retained the same advantage on hit/block, and since 6K is a move with unique properties this may be the case again. 6K mid screen already required meter to get anything meaningful and this won't change, so I don't think it'll be much of a difference maker in the end.

[orphanfight317]

Was it confirmed that 6K won't link to far S anymore or is this just your assumption from reading the level down change? In XX/, 6K went down a level but retained the same advantage on hit/block, and since 6K is a move with unique properties this may be the case again. 6K mid screen already required meter to get anything meaningful and this won't change, so I don't think it'll be much of a difference maker in the end.

It's my assumption from the level down change and from the current frame data. Currently you can get a knockdown off of far S meterless if it's spaced right, nothing too crazy but it's still a meterless knockdown.

Here is how I came to that assumption using the frame data, assuming the recovery is unchanged. Again please correct me if I did this wrong:

 

Current 6K frame data: 

• Startup is 19f
• Active is 4f
• recovery is 12
• Attack level is 4 (19f standing hitstun, 20f Crouching hitstun)

On hit you're +7/+8. Which gives you enough time to link into far S which has a 7 frame startup or 5k which has a 5F startup.

 

Assuming everything but the attack level is unchanged, here is the new 6K frame data.

• Startup is 19f
• Active is 4f
• Recovery is 12f
• Attack level is 2 (14f standing, 15f crouching hitstun)

Against a standing opponent you're at +2/+3 which isn't enough to link into 5k or far S.

If it's counter hit however you're at +6/+7 which still isn't enough to link into far S, but enough to link into 5k.

[Teyah]

You've done the math right, but what I'm saying is that there's a good chance that Arcsys will just tweak the move's properties to keep the +8/+5 hit/block advantage, despite the level down nerf. They did this back in GGXX Slash with the nerfed 6K and they don't typically like to mess with frame data on normals, so I can see it happening again.

Also for mid screen 6K on the characters it works on, at the same range you can do running 6K 5S 5H 2D you can do running 6K 5S 2H > air combo... But the chances of you landing this in a real match are near zero due to how unsafe it is to attempt and how much momentum you'd give up even just attempting it. So I don't really think it's worth bringing up as a meaningful potential nerf. Removal of unexpected 6K CH into r.5S > air combo / knockdown is a small loss though.

[orphanfight317]

You've done the math right, but what I'm saying is that there's a good chance that Arcsys will just tweak the move's properties to keep the +8/+5 hit/block advantage, despite the level down nerf. They did this back in GGXX Slash with the nerfed 6K and they don't typically like to mess with frame data on normals, so I can see it happening again.

Also for mid screen 6K on the characters it works on, at the same range you can do running 6K 5S 5H 2D you can do running 6K 5S 2H > air combo... But the chances of you landing this in a real match are near zero due to how unsafe it is to attempt and how much momentum you'd give up even just attempting it. So I don't really think it's worth bringing up as a meaningful potential nerf. Removal of unexpected 6K CH into r.5S > air combo / knockdown is a small loss though.

Gotcha, that would be great if it kept the same frame advantage on hit/block. You're right, losing 6K into f.S won't make that much of an impact, however for the sake of cataloging any potential changes I thought it should be brought up. 

[Layer]

I'm wondering how much the whole being able to BS Projectiles and it actually affecting the opponent is gonna effect her Hairpin. Log says you have to be a close range, but how close exactly? Personally I tend to use it mid range so I'd be astounded if I get repelled.

[Dirty Magic]

I'm wondering how much the whole being able to BS Projectiles and it actually affecting the opponent is gonna effect her Hairpin. Log says you have to be a close range, but how close exactly? Personally I tend to use it mid range so I'd be astounded if I get repelled.

Allegedly at 2P range.

[daymendou]

It's basically throw range. They refer to it as "throw maai." 2P was my guess so sorry for the confusion

[Dirty Magic]

So what do you guys go for after a grab meterless? Wondering if I get a grab in the corner if I can convert it.

[CrescentSaber]

Without meter no you can't convert it. I usually go for oki after a throw when I have no meter. Typically disc oki but sometimes I like to live dangerously and go for Secret Garden depending on who I'm up against.

[Synyster17]

some characters you can get throw combos. if you have meter you can do throw 5s 236236s combo or do throw RC if you can get the 5s to hit. on some characters you can get like a dash 5k into air combo but i haven't do anything with that yet