SnowMonkeyFunky Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I didn't know you couldn't throw during an airdash. That kind of kills much of the threat against FD jump out after a blocked range CR. Unrelated, but how big is the gap between air normal xx Mad Struggle? I would assume jP xx MS is easy to mash out of because it's level 0, but K, S, and H are lvl 2 so would that give enough frame advantage, at least on normal block, to make MS uncontestable? If not, maybe jD?
Reki Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I didn't know you couldn't throw during an airdash. That kind of kills much of the threat against FD jump out after a blocked range CR. I was aware that you couldn't throw while airdashing since xx but it was a surprise to me when it's possible in blazblue. Anyway It's pretty harsh if were able to hit the guy in mid air with H-CR. Either he gets hit and techs into your airthrow or blocks it then comes back down on the corner and receives more gay carcass loops.
Justice7541 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 What happens if you input sometihng like j.66H? Just wondering if it's possible to OS an airthrow. I was trying to OS airthrow/TK Mad Struggle but I don't think that works, Mad Struggle always gets priority over the airthrow. Maybe you can kara j.SH OS into a special? I know you can't kara H moves period.
DaiAndOh Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 You can OS air throw with normals other than D. So j.6PHS for instance works like 5SHS does on the ground. I don't think it works with special moves.
Justice7541 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Question is if you can OS airthrow with airdash by doing them on the same frame though. Or anything else that could be used to OS a jump-out attempt for that matter. Maybe j.74S+H~236S? I should actually workshop this stuff rather than speculating randomly during work downtime.
Seiki Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 i was wondering how to do this string: c.S>5HS>CR. Do you start charging inbetween c.S and 5HS? Any tips on this?
SIne Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 It's the kinda deal as 6P, 6H , CR, if you played venom in accent core, if not, You Input c.s 5hs really quickly and before the Heavy slash comes out, you start charging so you it would looks like c.s ,5.H [3] 8(9) CR S , you basically use heavy slash hit stun to help you buffer the charge. Double tap or triple tapping S helps alot, There is a slight delay before you actually press S though
DaiAndOh Posted March 1, 2015 Author Posted March 1, 2015 Really? I mostly do c.S (immediate 2) 5HS 8S. Using the prior move to get enough charge from a c.S(2) (similar as to how 2K, c.S(2) will give you enough time to charge a Carcass). Will look into that I suppose...
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Thoughts on QV as a blockstring ender? I'm thinking there must be a way to space it so that you can bait mashing to whiff and hit the ball for a CH, no?
Justice7541 Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Really? I mostly do c.S (immediate 2) 5HS 8S. Using the prior move to get enough charge from a c.S(2) (similar as to how 2K, c.S(2) will give you enough time to charge a Carcass). Will look into that I suppose... Carcass is 16f startup while 5H is 10f, so if you timed it right you could get an extra 6f of charge time while keeping everything airtight. Also get more RISC out of it, at the cost of more pushback I guess. I never really bothered with 5H much in general but I should go back and workshop it more.
DaiAndOh Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 Thoughts on QV as a blockstring ender? I'm thinking there must be a way to space it so that you can bait mashing to whiff and hit the ball for a CH, no? Yup, you'll see it as such in vids. -4 isn't the best but it gets a ball out and used correctly, you'll have Venom in a position where he can poke or hit the ball and still end up on top in most situations. Corner helps too of course. PQV although it has lesser range puts the ball in front of you for 5P/2P taps and 2S. The changes to 2S and P ball in 1.1 should prove interesting for this... I tend to favor HSQV spaced far and teleport to get back in. SQV can probably work. Space it, then jump backwards, which is space that many characters can't get to easily. Depending on how they react, you can use the appropriate air normal and go from there.
KrsJin Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Thoughts on QV as a blockstring ender? I'm thinking there must be a way to space it so that you can bait mashing to whiff and hit the ball for a CH, no? Just be mindful of getting interrupted as you do the QV. Granted, they have to call the QV out (or be mashing) but it can be interrupted during your blockstring in most cases.
Reki Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Yup, you'll see it as such in vids. -4 isn't the best but it gets a ball out and used correctly, you'll have Venom in a position where he can poke or hit the ball and still end up on top in most situations. Corner helps too of course. PQV although it has lesser range puts the ball in front of you for 5P/2P taps and 2S. The changes to 2S and P ball in 1.1 should prove interesting for this... I tend to favor HSQV spaced far and teleport to get back in. SQV can probably work. Space it, then jump backwards, which is space that many characters can't get to easily. Depending on how they react, you can use the appropriate air normal and go from there. I agree with this. Qv is good against people that always expect carcass ride after your block strings and jump to escape further pressure. Just remember to mixup the qv button you use along with the followup because -4. I see jp venoms do a lot of K-qv then follow it up with dash jump P or K probably because it has the least risk involved. What i haven't labbed abou qv is what to do if it counter hits. Another speculation i had in mind about 1.1 where venom is kill is that qv might have less pushblock to go along with that reduced blowback to further nerf his neutral. Duvis curve back pls.
Reki Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Sorry for the doublepost but i realized like a week ago that 2D doesn't fully knock down zato in a certain range. 2D's 2nd hit ends up otging zato which leads him to tech earlier than 2D's recovery. Now that i mention it, this is probably common against heavier characters if they get saturated with long gatlings before ending it with 2D. Only realized this once i started integrating 2D(2) H-ball dashjump safejump S. I usually test these myself but my lab test backlog is super long. Does anyone know any other characters that can also tech in between venom's 2D hits?
Diveman Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 What are some very basic pressure strings (corner mostly) I should be using? I know the classic P ball 5P then work from there. Anything else?
Redefinition Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Practice 2K, c.S(2), carcass and c.S(2), 2H, carcass. You can add a 2D in the first one after close slash if they don't faultless. Typically, just always, always try to be charging down back when doing close slash so that you can throw out carcass or stinger RC or w/e.
DaiAndOh Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Oh hey I said that line in the signature. And I was subject of Redefnition's signature... Basic corner pressure meterless are mostly strings into Carcass (version depends on spacing and their options), S Stinger, or QV when spaced further. YRC The first 2 to all but guarantee getting back in. Most pressure starters are TK Mad Struggle/2K (high/Low), jump in/airdash normals (from cover/okizeme situations), or c.S (all purpose 5 frames, guard bar crank, anti-jump with throw OS)
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 My mindset for corner mixups and pressure: S CR x N is extremely strong for block pressure at the right spacing. The sweet spot is where S CR just bounces off the ground and H CR will come down on top of them. Repeat that until they get impatient and want to escape, then read the jump out with H CR, air throw, or dash up 6H. If they stay still, dash up throw, high/low, or clS into a mixup. I really enjoy faking them out with dash up TK MS whiff into throw. For oki, K ball becomes the easy peasy basic knockdown setup from everything in the corner. Dash jK BH lets the ball hit super meaty, and you can go for falling jS, late airdash jS > jH, land 2K, land 2D, falling FD to bait DPs, whatever your heart desires. 2 ball sets can be done off most combo QVs or higher 6H xx set knockdowns. S > P ball dash up 5P BH gives a ton of frame advantage for a huge "deal with it" shitty situation for your opponent(shituation?). For taller characters, P>K ball is another great 2 ball oki set because they won't be able to duck under the P ball. Usually go for 5K PBH dash jump S KBH then you go for either falling jS or land 2K. There are countless others. Always experiment, Venom is a character that thrives on the creativity of the player.
Justice7541 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 This doesn't sound like "very basic" perssure to me. What I'd call basic is like: - 2K > 2D or throw = sweep or throw - 2K c.S(2) > Carcass or 2D = reset or sweep attempt to jump out - Whatever > TK Mad Struggle or 2D = high/low mixup - Whatever > QV = frametrap mashing
Xenozip Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 It's the kinda deal as 6P, 6H , CR, if you played venom in accent core, if not, You Input c.s 5hs really quickly and before the Heavy slash comes out, you start charging so you it would looks like c.s ,5.H [3] 8(9) CR S , you basically use heavy slash hit stun to help you buffer the charge. Double tap or triple tapping S helps alot, There is a slight delay before you actually press S though Is that actually a cancel? I get what you mean, you start charging before the 5HS comes out because you press 5HS and then down before the c.S even hits, but I can't seem to get enough charge time to be able to cancel until like the very end of the 5HS recovery animation. The way DaiAndOh mentioned cancels the 5HS pretty much immediately. Really? I mostly do c.S (immediate 2) 5HS 8S. Using the prior move to get enough charge from a c.S(2) (similar as to how 2K, c.S(2) will give you enough time to charge a Carcass). Will look into that I suppose... Does that work on standing opponents without a prebuffer? Like, I get it pretty easily on crouching opponents with just c.S 5HS because the third hit of c.S whiff gives you more charge time. And I can do it with 2K c.S(2) 5HS because the 2K hitstop gives enough time to buffer before the c.S comes out, but I'm trying and failing with just raw c.S(2) 5HS against a standing opponent.
DaiAndOh Posted March 4, 2015 Author Posted March 4, 2015 I do use a pre-buffer or have a ball out in the right positioning for the 5HS pushback to hit it, but if they're standing, then run up c.S(3) > 5HS Carcass should work I imagine?
Xenozip Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I do use a pre-buffer or have a ball out in the right positioning for the 5HS pushback to hit it, but if they're standing, then run up c.S(3) > 5HS Carcass should work I imagine? Oh, yeah, I had my head wrapped around standing/crouching and block/hit, nvm. My question's irrelevant because you can hit confirm. I mean, I am curious if it's possible but I suppose it doesn't matter either (if it hits, combo -- if it's blocked, you get it regardless).
Justice7541 Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Is that actually a cancel? I get what you mean, you start charging before the 5HS comes out because you press 5HS and then down before the c.S even hits, but I can't seem to get enough charge time to be able to cancel until like the very end of the 5HS recovery animation. The way DaiAndOh mentioned cancels the 5HS pretty much immediately. Does that work on standing opponents without a prebuffer? Like, I get it pretty easily on crouching opponents with just c.S 5HS because the third hit of c.S whiff gives you more charge time. And I can do it with 2K c.S(2) 5HS because the 2K hitstop gives enough time to buffer before the c.S comes out, but I'm trying and failing with just raw c.S(2) 5HS against a standing opponent. There is a slight gap between the c.S second hit and when you press 5H. It should still be airtight or close to it but you're not hitting 5H during the c.S(2) hitstop but rather a few frames after it ends and as its going into the third hit. If you're doing it right you should see like the first frame of the third hit's animation before you go into 5H. Unfortunately c.S's normal gatling window isn't as big as the special cancel window (you can do Carcass pretty much anytime during any of c.S's hits so long as one connects) but it's lenient enough that you don't actually have to 5H immediately as c.S hits. So your input actually looks more like 2K~5S~2, wait until slightly after hitstop of second hit ends, 5H~8S.
Xenozip Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 There is a slight gap between the c.S second hit and when you press 5H. It should still be airtight or close to it but you're not hitting 5H during the c.S(2) hitstop but rather a few frames after it ends and as its going into the third hit. If you're doing it right you should see like the first frame of the third hit's animation before you go into 5H. Unfortunately c.S's normal gatling window isn't as big as the special cancel window (you can do Carcass pretty much anytime during any of c.S's hits so long as one connects) but it's lenient enough that you don't actually have to 5H immediately as c.S hits. So your input actually looks more like 2K~5S~2, wait until slightly after hitstop of second hit ends, 5H~8S. Well, I mean it's easy if you put 2K in there, I'm talking about raw c.S.
SIne Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I thought the original question was asking how to do like 1 hit 5S 5H CR in pressure or whatever. For c.s 2 hits or 3 hits 5HS CR yea the way Dai mentioned is probably the best way. And more than likely with just raw c.S(2) 5HS against a standing opponent you have to prebuffer with a dash or the way i mentioned; it does come out slightly after the 5HS animation has ended. I can't really think of or havent really tried any other ways of that doing 5s or c.s (2) 5hs xx CR against a standing opponent. I wish we could just store charge like the CPU automatically or it would be interesting to have some mechanic where if he does X amount of ball summons hes get a auto-stored charged, lol that would be interesting...
Recommended Posts